Sure they can list it as a game which has been made for the 'hardcore' but surely it doesn't count till it is released everywhere? anyway.. I personally think that Nintendo have given up on the Hardcore gamers, Mario cart etc are advertised with a bunch of people who (in my opinion) don't look like they are hardcore gamers. I think that GTA4 and MGS4 will be the 'Final Stand' fighting to keep Hardcore gaming alive.

As much as some bemoan the rise of the casual gamer, Nintendo wouldn't have lasted beyond this generation without their support of the Wii. I for one will happily suffer, potentially enjoy, Wii Fit, if it means I'll still get to play Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Zelda, Metroid. Some could argue that they could still make hardcore games for other machines, but it is Nintendo's innovation that pushes the industry forwarded into new directions, beyond just raising the graphical bar or turning a console into a multimedia centre. The industry has to diversify in order to grow and mature - man can not live by FPS's alone :-D. What I'd like to see Nintendo do is focus on some new titles that aren't next-generation updates for a change. Here's hoping.

"Mario cart etc are advertised with a bunch of people who (in my opinion) don't look like they are hardcore gamers. I think that GTA4 and MGS4 will be the 'Final Stand' fighting to keep Hardcore gaming alive."

Let me see 1 Nintendo Wii with Wiimote + 3 extra Wiimotes+ 1 copy of Mario Kart with wheel + three extra wheels.... ££££ (For Nintendo). far from getting away from the "Hardcore Gamer" NIntendo are exploring other ways of generating revenue. and are targeting that cash - as every succesful business does. I actually wonder with the likes of Halo GTA COD MSG etc how many are brought by the hardcore as opposed to casual buyers joining in on the hype - seems to me that without the casual gamer we wouldnt be where we are today.

I wouldn't say GTA4 or MGS4 are 'hardcore' games. They're just as accessible to anyone who enjoys/has enjoyed videogames before, which is a hell of a lot of people.

People forget that 'casuals' are the main reason why the GTA series has sold so well in the first place - the premise of beating people up and stealing their cars isn't 'hardcore' at all.

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