Most indies i know fall into two camps - one that break the date and don't care or ones that stick to it and get angry when others sell early. Which way you go is down to how badly you need the money!

Simple. The one remedy that always worked – but seemed to be only done on certain products – were sales restrictions on the ePOS.

If you have someone who isn't aware of release dates, they scan a new game that shouldn't be released yet and it suddenly comes up on the till < Transaction Refused – Product Not For Sale Until 00:01 29/04/08 > then it's pretty clear – and impossible – for them to sell the game early.

well that would be good but not everyone will have a system capable of achieving that

Can't see how this is still happening - you never hear about this in the music or DVD sectors. I agree with Debbie, something as simple as a sticker on the pre-sale boxes would stop any accidental selling from under trained staff. But then you can never stop the ones selling early on purspose

The problem is, nothing really is ever done. Publishers need to take a firmer stand over it. However, in most cases its the non-specialist store staff (ie supermarkets or worse, Argos) who just do not know anything about games and release dates.

Its not difficult to prevent a sale on the till by ensuring that the barcode doesnt swipe until a date.

I think it sounds quite good if we were to start stickering dates on games with dates, would work really well in game stores as customers would then know the dates themselves.

Is there any SUPPORTED evidence of how many copies of games such as GTA were sold prior to offical release. And I mean not conjecture or hearsay about which store sold what to so and so's brothers sons friends etc.
IF, supported by evidence, there is a big issue, then controlling sales through labelling and Epos overides is a positive step and will reinforce the message that breaking release dates is not to be tolerated.

I got pretty annoyed with a few shops around my area that had copies of GTA 4 out on Friday night/Saturday morning. I reported them (brought copies with receipts).

The epos system would definitely be a positive move but what if the store has bought grey stock? They have then not signed an agreement and therefore will be untouchable in my opinion. We only opened a couple of weeks ago and go through the proper channels to get stock and adhere to any agreements made. My business is too precious to be playing around.

It does annoy me though when other stores get the jump on me as I would like to be trading in an even playing field. This sort of action forces people to be a bit naughty on occassion.

Why not just have a shipping date? The publisher ships out the game on a set date for delivery to all stores. Those with good stock control systems and good staff will have it on the shelves before their slower competitors.

The publisher retains control because they choose the date when they will ship it and customers can expect to see it on the shelf the next day.

There are 3 groups that this affects...

1) The developers/publishers who lets face it, simply want sales of the great games they have made.
2) The gamer, who simply wants to play the games.
3) The retailer, who simply wants to get the most money possible out of group 2 for the games group 1 wants to sell.

Now as a member of goup 1, I know that the worst thing that can happen with a broken street date is that it screws up the marketting slightly. But then again, if the marketting push hasn't kicked in and people still buy the game, the game must be what people want and that's why I make games, to give people games they want. All it really means is that the people who want it get it and those who weren't sure, get it when they see the adverts for it (if there are any).

As a member of group 2, I want the game as soon as possible... so if shop A will sell the game earlier than shop B, I'll buy from shop A... Simple, the demand and supply principle.

So the only people this affects is group 3... and that will be the same group that gives Joe Public £5 for their used games and then slaps them on the shelf for £30... and the ones who complain when shop B undercuts them by £5. I suspect the only sympathy vote is going to come from the rest of group 3, the rest of us just want to make and play the games.

have to agree with the guy above here.
at the end of the day a broken street date only harms the last part of the sales triangle. Developer and Publisher have still recieved their cash for the game/product so the harm will only be done to a marketing campaign or possibly customer base if product support isnt fully operational yet. ie: GTAiv's Social Club.
Look at Sony's release of the PSP. It was available probably 5 months before official UK release date andf the Japanese and UK spec version were EXACTLY the same!
The problem of breaking release dates or grey imports will not go away whilst companies proceed to roll out products on a converyor belt of alternative release dates per country. Admitedly with GTA rockstar did not do this; the choice was made however to release the game oin a TUESDAY! Requiring shipping of product to stores a weekend before release date? Thats just silly schematics and a sure fire way of promoting early selling! What i dont agree with is the power of the "big boys" to sell their stock at a bare profit or even in some cases a minor loss to obtain custom.
As for comparing this market to music or dvd? there is no similiarity at all! GTAiv has been a fanboys wet dream for the last 4 to 5 years! thats alot of excitment waiting to be released. now take for instance AVP Requiem. barely 3 years in production, barely 5 months from Cinema to DVD release! barely 2 hours of entertainment compared to GTA's 40+
there is no easy answer to the problem of broken street dates. But one thing is for sure....indi shops moaning about them wont resolve the issue. It will take a concerted effort across the board to resolve it to any given satisfaction, but with the power of the "big boys" involved chances are it wont come anytime soon.

@10 - without group 2 and 3, you do not have an industry fella tbh. It is all well and good going on about retailers buying pre-owned cheap but if the games were sold wholesale at a price point where group 3 actually made some money on it then we wouldn't have to look at other avenues to make a decent enough profit to survive.

If group 3 goes out of business you do not have a job.

How about switching to a US style ship date? Everyone can collect their goods or have them shipped on the same day and whoever has the logistics and planning will reap the rewards. THAT would certainly spice things up!

I feel the only way to stop streetdates being broken is to get heavy on retailers, the sooner you stop the stock of a retailer they suddenly get the idea very quickly.

To say that in a large retail company some members of staff simply don't understand is quite simply down to bad management stuctures, and inadiquate POS (as another comment states POS could tell the assistant not to sell).

Just think if ASDA had thier stocks pulled over thier Launch Date breakage, dont you think the first point of action would be to ensure it never happened again and thier POS suddenly gets reprogrammed? Hmmm, Nuff said.

To be honest, the solution is pretty simple. I know it will mean hardship for retailers who need to set up shop, but tough. This is what happens when one idiot spoils the whole damn bunch.

Get the retailers to set up all relevant POS and make space for the new arrival. Cover that section with a POS advertising the title. THEN, and here's the cruncher brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr don't have the ordered stock arrive until the night before or the morning thereon. If you don't have it, you can't sell it. Simple. AND doable. And if the retailers feel put out? Perhaps they should consider getting another job.

@10

What retailer gives £5 for a game then sells it for £30?

Your talking nonesense.

@15

Having stock arrive the day before, release or on release day could be a way of dealing with retailers that have sold early.

However to do it across the board would be on the whole unfair to retailers that don't sell early, as it would give insufficeint time for a small chain to distribute stock between their own branches.
Plus what happens when a box goes missing? The retailer has no stock for launch day.

Why not take the decision away from the retailer and make the consumer log on to the game website to get a code to activate the game, and if they do not have access to the web then a phone number. So even if the retailer sells the game early then the purchasers cannot use it until the publishers release date.

deliver the games to the retailers the day before release.

As someone who has worked at a retailer, currently work for a publisher and is still a buyer there are ways to crack down on early sellers.

My opinion is that retailers must spend the time to inform their staff that under no circumstances should this title be sold before its street date. The till idea from an earlier post is pretty good and easily implemented by the bigger retailers, but if not practical for indies or smaller stores. Slapping a sticker on the box saying 'do not sell before...' is a good idea, but in my experience most retailers don't like the idea of having to remove these stickers when it comes to merchandising, its more work for them.

The best way so far seems to be Publishers clamping down on retailers who do sell early. Yes, there were the odd reports of GTA being sold early by ASDA, but it was only a few copies and was quickly stopped. As a whole there was a significantly lower number of early sellers then in previous years, and this is probably dude to Take Two threatening to cease supplies to GTA to whichever retail blantantly breaks the street date...who can afford not to stock it?

There are some good ideas here that can be trialed for future big releases, but retailers and publishers need to sit down and come up with an efficent model without alienating smaller businesses.

1) Send them out to the shops on the date you normally would

2) use The Royal Mail instead of the usual courier,

3) hey presto!!! everything will get to the shops a week late, and the 'street date' hasn't been breeched

only down side is half the stock will get lost/or some immagrant workers will nick the disc's and sell them on a Car Boot sale

problem with punishing a store like Asda over selling teh game too early is they may turn around and not sell it at all. It wouldn't be that big a deal for them as they get their profits from other non-gaming products.

I feel that the issue with release/street dates is a complete waste of energy. The situation was created through demand & that will not go away what ever you try to put in the way of the consumer. Also the shops who sell early are in a very small minority why should the majority suffer.

The serial number activation system would create a whole new problem.

@ 20, Well said, it made me laugh anyway.

From my point of view in my retail position, I routinely find that it is the same independent retailers breaking street dates on purpose, with GTA IV (and other releases) they simply adopted the common tactic of selling it to customers with no receipt being given to those customers, hence no one can obtain proof of a transaction. This is very frustrating.

For big non specialist chains the idea of having box printed release dates, like big DVD titles have, is what is needed. It is simple. EPOS restrictions are pointless, it won't stop the biggest breakers of street dates.

All consoles and of course PCs are now connected to the internet. Games could be 'locked' by the publisher until midnight on launch day so that they cannot be played before.

That way it adds a separate layer of protection from retailers selling early and the penalties are less severe before launch day, because they cant be played.

Digital download services already do something similar, so extending it to box copies is not beyond reason.

that is a great idea 24, what happens if you do not have access to the internet?

did you even follow the disaster that was the bioshock launch where the servers were overloaded with the authorisation requests?

Maybe the developers can simply add a section of code on the launch of a game, where if todays date is before the date of release (coded into the game) then the game will not play. This would probably be curcumvented by changing the system clock, but would at least alert the customer taht the store sold them the title incorrectly.

The wrong question is being asked. It shouldn't be "How can we stop early selling?", it should be "Why should we stop selling early?"

Release dates are simply not important and never were. The whole ridiculous scenario has been built up over the years that people now actually believe its some kind of industry damaging event, one that could bring the whole industry down around our ears. Christ, some people have actually made careers out of it which is utterly laughable.

Contary to many people belief there's no law to stop anyone breaking release dates, there's nothing anyone can do if you do. And if your an indie and have been threatened by a supplier that they will 'reduce further allocations and reduce quantities on further new releases' you have to ask; whats new there? If you're an indie you don't have to break release dates to get shafted by the suppliers on allocations. The suppliers expect loyalty from the indies, but offer none in return, so break away I say.

@16

"What retailer gives £5 for a game then sells it for £30?"

GAME do. So it's you who is talking nonsense.

I've broke on every single release date since being in business over the last 2 years and I will continue to break on every single release date going foward. Best of all? I couldn't give two ****s what anyone thinks,

i own a indie and we break on every release! sold every copy of gta 4 two days before release date 350 copies at £50.00!!!!!! then asda sold at 34.99 we bought all there stock and sold out again at £50.00... then the rest of our city sold out all of there stock at 39.99-44.99 so every one was a winner!!!!! remember no recipt no hassle!!!

Thanks asda, going on holiday with the extre cash i made from you! lol

@27

I notice you decline to mention what the game is the Game will buy for £5 and sell for £30.

As a indie I do look at Games preowned games and wonder how they can charge such high prices, but I still don't believe they have a 600% mark up on sid games.

@ 30.

First and foremost, you're a complete ****.

Secondly I work at GAME, and there are several games but if you must have an example take motorstorm on the PS3, we trade it for £5 and sell for £29.99.

Now, get fu*ked you donkey raping ****eater.

You want to stop the problem, it's easy to do. If a retailer is caught selling an EA title for example. Then EA spends that retailer for 5 years from selling ANY of their product. It makes no difference who the retailer is. Put realistic penalties and it will stop.

@31.

First and foremost, I hope you don't speak to your mother like that.

Secondly it clearly states on Games website that a preowned Motorstorm is £14.98

Now, relax before you have a heart attack.