How many of those 5m were replacements for faulty machines either out of, or perceived by the customer to be out of warranty?

But even if the figures are a true reflection, 3/4 of a million ahead of PS3 is not all that good for the lead-time it had.

@Adam

So your saying if people are out of warranty in someway or another, and their 360 became faulty, that they would go and get a new one? Hmm.. I can't see why, when you could get it repaired for alot cheaper.

Personally I think over 5m SALES is a good number for MS as the majority of the countries are Sony through and through. It'll be interesting to watch by I can see Sony taking over in sales in europe sometime next year.

it is since Europe is loyal to Sony

@1: Every time MS announce 360 sales someone always asks the same stupid question. The sales dont include replacements :(

Many people buy a 2nd 360 just for a backup because of its poor reliability and they are very cheap.

I know of atleast 3 mates who have done this...

You have got to be pretty hardcore to do that which will not reflect the market as a whole. I take these are guys who are keen on their online play or something?

I have a 360 myself but I'd rather spend another £200 on something else...

Seriously? I know the machine is prone to break down but i've had mine over a year and have no intention of buying a back up, it would make better financial sense to buy one when it breaks as then it will innevitably be cheaper.

I'd much rather cash in my warranty for free if i ever need to.

"Many people buy a 2nd 360 just for a backup because of its poor reliability and they are very cheap.

I know of at least 3 mates who have done this..."

Well they're stupid with money to burn then. I got mine replaced at no cost to me. I can only assume they now have an additional 360 sat in another room gathering dust.

The sales would include some replacements.....kind off.
I agree that officially they dont, but I do know some people who have had the RROD on their original 360, but instead of repairing have opted to upgrade to an Elite - but this would only skew the number by a very small amount, and is also some testament to the popularity of the console despite it's well publicised technical issues.

Also - I dont think anyone would dispute that Sony will possibly overtake MS in Europe eventually, but the fact is that it will be much closer this time around compared to the previous generation and there is still much to be decided.
But at the end of the day - who really cares ? Both consoles have established a large enough user base that they will both continue to have a high number of decent quality games, whether first/third party, going forward - so lets just enjoy the console of our choice - and if you happen to have both - then even better for you!

^^ common sense reigns. I am in shock

@ Jimothy and @ka0znrky

So maybe I should tell the people I know that did buy replacements, that they in fact did not. If they're confused about that, can I send them your way to explain ?

Additionally does the percieved "installed base" include the many trade-ins they have in the window of my local Gamestation? Presumably that's from people that upgraded their core to an elite system. Surely that would be a replacement sale not a new sale. So the number of users shouldn't change from those sales.

@Adam: From my experience working in a gaming retailer people are very aware of their warranties when they part with what was £300, even at£150 a customer will fight tooth and nail for their replacement even if the machine is a month out of warranty so while you may be right that some of those sales can be put down to ppl foolishly buying a second machine i can assure you the number of those cases is incredibly small.

As for the trade-ins they dont bother with that as none of the other companies do. Its just an acceptable way of doing it and is shared by the industry as a whole. Same thing happens with the PS3, 20gb model traded for a 40gb model, 60gb for the 80gb etc.

Its not an accurate way of doing it as many of those machines are sitting in shop windows but at the same time when those machines are sold that figure isn't included in the sales of the machine so it almost evens itself up.

Trade-ins wont be counted since its the retailer who took them in and didnt order them from MS distributors.

Dean, you´re right.
I also bought another 360 for backup and so did some friends of me.
Btw. MS now is very, very customer friendly! I already got a new headset and a new wireless controller.

@Manuel: Did you buy one when you already had a 360? Why not just use your warranty? Why not wait until the machine fails?

*just curious*

The reason my mates bought new ones was because instead of getting the old one repaired, they could have a new model with the better chipset.

And anyone else who has this problem, get the warranty replacement and then sell it, either as a trade in or to a friend/ebay etc. Then buy the new machine with the money/credit

@ Adam

For every faulty machine returned it's knocked off the total number of unit sales, so no, replacements are not counted.

The only exception is when the consumer does not return the faulty console and just buys a new one, which is very rare and on the customers part, very stupid.

MS need to check their numbers again, all other analysts have PS3 over 360 in Europe now. I think i'll believe the analysts over a manufacturer who has a vested interest in telling the world its doing better than it is...

Times are changing and the 360 is growing in Europe, this is not good for Fony.

I'm a 360 man myself but all the signs are that PS3 will outstrip the 360 in most of mainland Europe. That will have an eventual knock on effect over here because publishers won't be able to recoup their dev costs on the 360 version from the territory as a whole.

I can see myself having to switch consoles inside 18 months

@ 20

You lost any credibility the moment you used the word 'Fony'.. How witty.

Here's some others you might not of heard of:

Sony Poostation, Xbrick, Xflop, Nintendo-Piss, ***station & my favourite 'Dreampants'

Now, piss-off back to the CVG forums with the other fanboys.

@20: what do you mean its growing, the machine has been out for over 2 years and has done its growing and while it will continue to sell well its no longer on the upward slant of the graph.

@starwars: Well put.

@ Adam

I never said your friends hadn't bought a replacement. I said I can't see why people would when it's cheaper to get it repaired. Read my sentence correctly before being sarcastic.

"all other analysts" means VGchartz/VGguess/VGfanboy...
MS dares sony to show their numbers..

Sony have shown their numbers at the London O2 Sony Playstation Day in May. They claimed to have outsold xbox360 in Europe already. I think the way PS3 is selling in Europe now, they will be quite comfortably ahead in sales.

Sony has sold what? 120 million ps2's worldwide? How many of those sales were 2nd or 3rd purchases for replacements of faulty consoles?? I bought 3 before I gave up on Sony. Most of my friends bought at least 2 and some more than 3. Neither side is perfect so that argument is completely rediculous.

PS3` reached that milestone back in January

x360 is the least selling console in europe

I think 5m is the shipped figure. x360 is around 4m in europe

I am one of the people who has purchased a 360 as a spare. I have purchased it due to my 1st 360 getting RROD, I have used the warranty twice, due to RROD. I am impatient & dont want to wait 10 days or longer for my repair, I also wanted an elite so it was another reason for getting it.

I should also add the Xbox was also a very unreliable machine I had four in its short life. The fact is the 360 is an unreliable machine. The amount of people I know on xbox live for instance that have or have had "I have RROD" as their moto is to many. I like my 360 a hell of a lot but I have still purchased a PS3 & a Wii just to keep it real & not to become a sad Fanboy as both the PS3 & Wii are quality machines. The Sony Playstations 1 & 2 have had their problems maybe some of you didnt game then to know this but they sure as hell were not that reliable. The only games consoles I have owned that have been reliable are Nintendos & Sega.

@ larry: " I think 5m is the shipped figure. x360 is around 4m in europe."
Oh puleeze!Stop spewing out garbage and disinformation, and plucking fake figures from your butt! Charttrack UK alone has the 360 selling over 2 million in the UK alone long ago. Those are SOLD figures, not shipped. Microsoft has now come out and given out definitive figures that the 360 is ahead of the PS3 by over 750,000 units. Its time for Sony to put up or shut up. Meanwhile the 360 has a massively bigger installed base than the PS3 in the US, which just happens to be the world's biggest console market by far. Even after TWO massive PS3 price cuts of $100 each(to only a small $50 360 price cut), the PS3 has managed to outsell the 360 only twice in the US since the PS3 was launched, and the 360 US, installed base continues to be vastly bigger than the PS3 installed base in the US.
Meanwhile, the 360 continues to make big profits, even as the PS3 racks up huge losses($1.5 Billion PS3 losses in the last year alone). Microsoft can afford to cut 360 prices and still make money, while Sony will plunge even deeper int losses, if the cut pS3 prices.

It's a childish discussion. PS3 is bought by blind kids very influentiated by advertising. Consumers should be rational when intended to buy a console. PS3 also has a lot of problems. I'm working in a videogame store and I have a lot of customers unnhapy with Sony's Console. People who have both consoles prefer to play with Microsoft Console. Its for mature people.

At the anonymous poster above, I am one of the first humans on the planet to purchase my 360, in November 2005, and it hasn't given me as much as a hiccup since I bought it. It's been working like a dream.
Not to mention, the Falcon 360' have been very relaible since they were launched in September last year.
What more nonsense ya got?

@31 - 360 "Its for mature people."

LOL!!!!

Sorry but you've never obviously never played it online then!

Some of the dumbest statements to date:
"Many people buy an extra 360 incase one breaks!"
They haven't bought a PS3 because they say it's too expensive, but they can buy a spare 360. (Shut up will you!)
"Some of those numbers are because their 360 broke and they had to replace it."
Wouldn't it be much cheaper to have it repaired? (Failed)
Bottom line, this article is suppose to be a good story for 360 fans and instead it is tainted by a bunch of Sony loyal fan trolls that is jealous of all good news that is not about Sony. Get over yourselves boys.

@ 31

Would love to be your boss when you try to pitch a PS3 sale. You'd be sacked on the spot.

Quick sales tip... Try to explain POSITIVES on both machines rather than the negatives therefore you wont have the customer scratching his/her head, walking out of the store and loosing a potential sale.

@ Starwars
Your right, this is becoming a tad tedious.

"
@35

Hey Hnbeanz, I don't remember you as my teacher and I don't intend to be yours"

@ 36

Thank god, then the games retail industry as a whole would be in trouble.

Now, jot off to C&VG young Padwan. They could do with the likes of you.

I tend to believe Sony on this one, Microsoft are on the back foot, and have to say they have more units.

Even if Microsoft are right, 3/4m units gap, when they squandered a 18month head start is nothing to brag about..

Everyone I know that's a previous 360 gamer either now has a PS3 too, or is about to buy, the lure of MGS4 and the other exclusives is now too great to miss out on. They are also sick of sending the damn thing back every few months for repair..