with woolworhts and other stores already cutting the prices of these games, when there is no need, the only option we have left is to sell early, sorry its just survival

Clueless supermarket staff and whinging indies please pay attention...

They need to tell the mail order firms, most of my friends had Fable by Wednesday, 2 days before release thanks to their internet orders being sent on the monday or tuesday.

(3) good comment the online stores like shopto and play always send games early (ALWAYS) so sort them out and i am sure indies would follow as we lose orders this way.

Everyone knows that Play, Game, Shopto etc constantly ship their online orders early. As they did with Fallout 3, arriving to customers Wed/Thursday.

Why is it the MCV never report on Play, Game, shipping online orders early? Are they scared to rock the boat?

"Gem is enforcing street date agreement in an attempt to combat any potential problems for Gears of War 2, as it did with last weeks Fable II"

That is all well & good but surely the Gem street date agreement is going to be ignored when Microsoft choose to take no action against Currys selling Fable II early.

Just had a look on Games website. I can pay £4.95 for Express 1 day delivery. So If I preorder Gears of war 2, and they ship it Mon/Tues I'll be playing it Wed at the latest.

Who needs the high street

Well its been really well inforced so far .......NOT

I know someone who has had a copy of Gears 2 for around a week now.. again purchased from an online retailer

I am sick to the teeth with indy stores whining all the time about big retail stores selling early or selling games cheap.

Me the consumer is interested in being able to get my games CHEAP at the same time if I can get the game early then who on earth are you or anyone else to complain about that?

If it effects your business because its soo small you cannot offer such prices etcs then shut shop and go home!

@Bob

I can assure you it's nothing to do with rocking boats. We have covered in this issue in the past, but my understanding is that Royal Mail does not guarentee its customers (ie. the retailers) next day delivery, so they have to post by Wednesday at the latest to satisfy the guarentee they have given their customers (ie. the gamers) that the game will be there by release day. It's a difficult situation to tackle.

@Ben

Thanks for your reply.

However as I see it, by sending Wednesday to guarantee Friday delivery they are knowinly breaking the street date, as a large proportion will arrive next day.

Where is the difference between thousands of copies of a game landing on peoples doormats Thursday morning, and a shop selling the same game to a customers on a Thursday.

wow, incase you didnt know this is a site for the industry, so its indies on here, what a great attitude telling people to close if they cant compete, lets hope you dont loose your job, its great that you cant see past the nose on your own face. Competition is fine and needed, but i personally would just like to earn an honest living, of course customers want the best and cheapest, if you worked in this business you wouldnt be so ignorant.
I just want to pay my mortgage and feed my kid,maybe ill go on the dole and you can pay for me eh ?

well thanks jack but you did not get the point, indies are complaining that we have to sign agreement forms that are never enforced.

so why bother when ethel at asda accidently hands over a game early and the online retailers can post on a wednesday?

i have an idea! - why dont we sell the games on thursday but ask the customer to stand outside while we wrap game up and then hand it to them.

If they want to guarantee delivery they really should pay for guaranteed delivery, but this would put the price up.

Allowing them to post on a monday or tuesday is cheating, there's only one way to guarantee delivery and thats use an appropriate service, allowing them to post 4 days early because they don't want to charge or swallow for for guaranteed shipping is a bit naughty.

I think the websites need to stop pretending that they need to send them so early. A large proportion of educated consumers are shopping with them very specifically because they know there is a 90% chance that the goods will show up early. Just read the busy forum of a large independent online site and you'll see how much of a deciding factor that is in where they spend their money.

Firstly I know that indies cannot purchase games or consoles in bulk as large stores to get the discount that allows them to sell games at more competitive prices, now the thing is if you are selling at game for say £40 then why should I go to you if I can get the game for say £35 elsewhere?

Same as you going to get petrol, why go to BP when Tesco is cheaper?

Or food etc.

You want to make money, pay your mortgage feed your kids and what do you think everyone else wants to do? Rather than pay you the extra I want to save that extra to pay my bills etc so we are all in the same boat.

In regards to getting games early as far as I know if someone breaks the contract by selling early if you can prove that the local competitor has done this then you should be in your right to sell early to.

I have spoken to Play.com and they say as soon as the game comes into stock they ship it, like FarCry 2 was in stock on Monday and many got their games by Wednesday.

These companies that want to sell or ship early its up to them if they want to break the rules, but those that can get hold of a top game like Gears 2 early is seen as cool for a gamer to boast or even ebay to make loads of money.

Perhaps all the Indy stores should combine into one huge retailer and get games and consoles at bulk and be more competitive? Just a though.

Oh and am looking forward to Gamestop launching over here...

Wow so many "indies" missing the point, and not "Jack".

Non specialist retailers sell early through human error, indies sell early on purpose. The intention is everything and gamers target non specialists on purpose to try and con their staff out of the game. Indies do it to grab a market share and make a fast buck!

Someone commented this is an industry forum - actually its not, MCV has an industry forum that genuine members of the trade can access - this is a public message board and open to all, not just the trade. Indies that do not want to be challenged should use the industry forum and not these message boards.

Though I expect that other than fellow indies you will not get much support on the industry forum.

'Non specialist retailers sell early through human error, indies sell early on purpose. The intention is everything and gamers target non specialists on purpose to try and con their staff out of the game. Indies do it to grab a market share and make a fast buck!'

Can I add that only SOME indies do this, i own an independent video game store and i can hand on heart say that we have never done this, it's up to preference but i don't wish to be stereotyped thankyou very much :)

@16: I'm not going to quote it, just to inform you that if you scroll down, you will see the "About Us" section. Show me where it says "Public" in that statement... if you can.

MCV needs to lock these message boards to be for the group of people it claims to be for. That way, the public can stick to IGN and Gamespot, where they are more suited.

They need to enforce registration by job function so they can create a special place for retailers to moan, and another place, where developers can actually discuss the relevant news without listening to the constant complaining.

Can't see it happening though, so we just have to put up with it unfortunately.

It is really quite sad how divided this industry is, jugding by the comments left in these message & other on the website.

Developers are resentful of retailers for selling used games.
Indies are resentful of percieved injustices & double standards
Indies are always described as 'whinging' or 'moaning'.

Would it not be better if we all pulled in the same direction, are we not all after the same thing? I know its a dirty word......profit.

@LeeC

MCV has an industry only forum. If you don't want to engage in meaningful conversation with "the public" - who by the way are the source of income for the entire videogames industry because without us retail, publishers, developers, PR, distribution etc are all out of a job - then sign yourself up with your industry credentials and post there.

Why do so many so called "industry" people seem unable to access the industry board?? Plus it never seems to occur to some people that many here would not wish to post with their true details so that posts and comments could not be attributed to them.

@johnj - johnj, if you truly operate that way then you are certainly in a minority given the torrent of comments on MCV about fellow indies doing all sorts of underhand and industry damaging moves...

@Jon

So its 'underhand and industry damaging' when Indies sell a title early.
Yet you pass no judgement on play, game etc that send many thousands of copies that arrive early?

I cannot place any comments recently on MCV about indies doing all sorts of 'underhand and industry damaging moves'
I find it astonishing that your happy to make such a generalised and unsubstatiated attack.

@ Jack Black
You said: "Perhaps all the Indy stores should combine into one huge retailer and get games and consoles at bulk and be more competitive? Just a though."

Well, I founded g30 in 1998, the free to join non-profit making buying cooperative and got some of the best industry people on board to help fund and run it, but as soon as publishers checked their 'exclusive distribution' contracts, they had to refused to deal with us.

The wholesale publishers stuck with us, but it didn't help that indies decided they could buy European imports for tuppence less.

It was a lost opportunity and the moment that I realised that as a sector, the indies were incapable of helping themselves.

Then, we set up GameIndie.com which again is free for the present, and is entirely funded by us out of our own pockets, but I am getting tired of putting my reputation on the line for such a self centred group of people. I used to say, Unite or Die. Most chose to die.

I work with some excellent people who still run good and profitable businesses, but at some stage it will be too expensive to run five or six major distribution companies to serve such a small sector.

2009 will be an interesting idea and instead of flaming me, why not start a discussion on how we can rescue and revive the sector.

We even offered the distributors free access to the our 250 Game Guide Epos systems, if the individual retailers agreed, so that they can see day by day how their own exclusive titles are selling, enabling them to measure their own buying and stock holdings, matching what is selling on the shop floors. But they also looked that gift horse in the mouth and walked away.

I am open to any sensible suggestions to help revive this sector, but time is running out for everybody and I am already busily diversifying after fifteen years of service to the indies.

http://uk.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/gearsofwar2/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-46378964&pid=938611" onclick="window.open ( this.href ); return false;" class="comment_url" >http://uk.gamespot...38611

Sounds like a lot of people are getting games early

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