why does he not mention the wii ? when does he see xbox selling more than Nintendo ?

after all you've had a big enough head start on PS3 (and it has been as expensive a a NASA space capsule since launch). Can't believe you want to draw attention to your embarrassingly small lead on SONY Chris.

Of course they do theyt count differently. Their count includes those units that were replaced because of RROD.

Very simple enough.

M$ report sales numbers 'sold to retailers', not consumers. Nintendo and Sony report sales to consumers.

Well, that should come as no surprise, lets face it, the 360 had a year advantage. I would've thought it would be more actually.

@Henry Ford. I believe that neither Microsoft or Sony consider the Wii to be a challenger. In fact they see the Wii as a gateway console. The Wii is seen as 'your first console with training wheels'.

It's amazing how Microsoft "count their figures differently" when the figures above actually show the PS3 as being a million units ahead in Europe....strange that! Where'd they wangle the other 2 million units from?

respect to tiks comment, i wud say exactly the same, multiplyed his numbers by 3 which is the average amounts of xboxs my m8s have had, each.!, sony is ahead,

just wat till pro evo 2010, tekken 6 and gran turismo, weel see whos ahead..these all sell heaviLY in eroupe with a sony bias.

Thats it Sony and M$, keep trying to outdo each other on every front, its peeps like me who benefit when it comes to owning both consoles cheaply. Thank god one console hasn't dominated overall, would loathe to go back to the bad old days when it was PS2 or nothing . . . . .

“We count installed base differently to them,” = we add 2 million of units every sony's sales announcements.

if sony and MS consider Nintendo as no contender and a starter console, why are both companies developing motion control to their current gen systems, because they want a slice of the Wiis market share, i

Wow - What a lot of fanboys you lot are.

Did you even read the article?

You are aware of the difference between Europe and PAL territories?

Grown up. Arrgghh.

oh. And as for the head start . . Dreamcast had a year on PS2. It wasn't a problem for PS2 was it?

"Sony announced it had sold 10m units in the PAL territory" - This is PAL, it includes Austrailia & others outside europe.

"Microsoft had revealed a 9m installed base figure for the Xbox 360 in Europe" - This is Europe

"We count the number of units in the hands of consumers" - Sony and Nintendo count Shipped to retailer.

RROD will not figure in these numbers because you have to return your knackered 360 to get a new one - Straight one for one swap.

I see nothing wrong with this article. . .

. . . Although it lookslike its only me!

well in the UK if you have faulty 360 and its over 28 days old, its goes back to microsoft and they dont replace it they repair it, sorry this is not a fanboy post here, we have regular great xbox customers who are on their 8th 360 and each time they have to wait while it goes to germany from the uk for repair, not replace, others simply buy a used arcade or new 360. i would just like to hear MS talk about how they plan to beat Nintendo, they are beating sony, who cares MS are not number 1 they should talk about beating someone who is ahead of them

I was just thinking the same thing.

M$ this and RROD that, the fanboys are out in force today.

ANYWAY to the article, Microsoft have done well in the last year, they we're struggling and if I remember rightly they about a year or so ago they almost fell (or did fall) behind Sony in Europe, and since the price cut they have built up a 1m margin. Well done to them.

However, I do believe that Sony will now be coming back in terms of sales with the Slim, and as soon as they hit the "Magic £200 mark" It will bring a bigger surge in sales. It's hotting up.

Competition is great guys, stop being such fanboys and grow up! :-)

sales of the xbox will most likely lag behind until natal comes out, then I would think it's going to be like the wii for some time, it will be selling out like hot cakes.

sorry, but wrong. The LAW of the land states that a console faulty within six months of purchase must be replaced, refunded OR repaired..customer choice. I have replaced 4 this way. Let me know where your shop is...so I can avoid it.

@16 "I have replaced 4"

@13 "we have regular great xbox customers who are on their 8th 360"

Disregarding the console count, how on earth do XBox owners put up with the sheer amount of replacements. I dont mean this to be a fanboi comment as I know the XBox 360 is an excellent gaming machine, but FFS, I would have lost my patience after the second return, let along 4th etc.

"...how on earth do XBox owners put up with the sheer amount of replacements."

I have wondered this myself - It must be very worrying for Sony that a flawed console such as the 360 could still outsell their more reliable 'high end' machine.

Hopefully the PS3 slim will redress the balance somewhat.

Good comment. I abandoned mine after the 4th, some peoples patience is immense.

Ok your console has been out a year longer.... and they probly count xbox replacments which happen all the time 3 of my friends have had 3 replacements and 2 have had 1 replacement... so for 5 friends thats 11 xbox's... maybe they dont count them xD YEAH RIGHT

For several years now SONY, like MICROSOFT have been counting units SOLD not shipped to retailers. SONY USED to count shipped, but not in recent years. As for the 360 issue, i have had a lot of customers over the last 3 years with faults NOT covered by microsoft whi have just given in and bought a new Core or Arcade 360 because its less hassle than getting their dead one fixed. As it has now been confrimed by various research articles, the 360 is by far the most unreliable console, this has to have affected their sales figures. They can say what they like, when you have served hundreds of people a week since the launch of the machine and see how many NEW consoles are sold to customers to replace faulty ones out of warranty, Microsofts figures do not add up.

If anyone here seriously thinks that a returned/refunded/ exchanged console is knocked off MS' shipped figures then they need their bumps feelin'...!

WHY on Earth do the fanboys have to attack everything the other side says or does? Can nobody READ the article? It says nothing about "not counting RROD replacements", it states that Microsoft count their userbase differently to Sony.

That means - Sony count in PAL territory (which is Europe, plus Australia, New Zealand et al) and Microsoft count in EUROPE (ie - the UK, France, Spain et al). There is nothing fanboy-related here to get excited about, so please just grow up.

@20 - I always take the time to laugh at people like yourself when it comes to stories about RROD. It's always "my mate has had 36 Xbox's, and my other mates' mate has had 23 of 'em." Funny how it has never happened to you!! I'm on my launch 360 and never had anything resembling a problem.......yet!

@14 - Couldn't have put it any better. We have 2 fantastic next-gen consoles, each with their own strengths and weaknesses - and both will fairly soon be under £200 each. I paid £280 for my launch day Pro and £425 for my launch day PS3, so late adopters are going to be laughing all the way!!

@16 - I work for a large specialist retailer, and the manufacturers warranty is covered by retail for the first 12 months, not 6, and CERTAINLY not 28 days. The LAW states that the only right you lose after 28 days is the one about a refund - the retailer only has to refund if it cannot replace within an "undetermined, but plausibly realistic time-frame mutually agreed by the buyer and seller".

Finally, @12 - I think you'll find to be honest mate that all 3 console manufacturers will report "shipped to retail" figures. When PS3 first launched, they claimed they sold 200,000 units in the UK or whatever it was - it was actually 200,000 shipped and more like 115,000 sold according to ChartTrack data. Also when the 360 Elite first shipped, the numbers were similar (but on a much lower scale). Manufacturers always put spin on their numbers!!

And finally - everyone on here who always questions how many 360 consoles are replaced because of RROD - have you considered how many people replaced with pre-owned machines? If mine went - I'd simply buy a used one and save money.

Personally I think this is the best time ever to be a gamer - regardless of the format you own. Lets PLEASE not go back to the dark ages of Sega vs Nintendo or ST vs Amiga with these stupid and pathetic fanboy rants - the industry has matured since then. Why the hell haven't you?

FOR EVERYONE yielling about the repurchases of 360 due to RROD, there is a very simple argument to outdo this:
as Neil said "....they probly count xbox replacments which happen all the time 3 of my friends have had 3 replacements and 2 have had 1 replacement... so for 5 friends thats 11 xbox's... maybe they dont count them xD YEAH RI".....

well.... if that's the case for 360 machines sold, the same thing cannot be said about games sold (no one repurchases a game, every time he repurchases a console!)...... so this fenomenon would EASILY BE SEEN BY THE ATTACHMENT RATE (assuming your 5 friends had 10 games each (50 in total), with 5 machines sold it would have an attatchment rate of 10 (50/5), however, with 11 machines sold, it brings the attatchment rate way down to 4.54 (50/11). Since we all know that the 360 has the HIGHEST attatchemnt rate (12) of any console (including the PS3)..... the REPURCHASED 360 argument is simply NOT TRUE!!!

Sorry to undo your argument.....

So M$ is saying that there are 2 million PS3's sitting in retailers warehouses throught Europe. That guy is a comedian.

seriously we need to know the law and we trade withing the guide lines set by trading standards, WE can send any faulty item back and replace an item with a customer within the first 28 days of the invoice period from suppliers, after this period it drops onto the manufactuers warrenty, this is how trading standards told us to operate and this is how all our suppliers operate, you cant call Gem up in 6 months and get a 360 replaced, its not how they trade, avoid my shop if you want, this is how you should trade, tesco large stores you can fuk them around as they have millions of pounds set aside for theift and faulty items, they will just swap an item out to avoid any argument.
im not trying to be funny but the actual law says all electrical goods has a 6 year warrenty, try telling that to Microsoft,

the reliabilty of the 360 is well known to be suspect, even MS admitted it. You hinting otherwise is foolish.

You need to check the sale of goods act, in particular the conformance bit. Sounds like you are quoting the company policy not the law. The 28 day figure is completely rubbish. the right for refund can last 12 months and beyond. Again let me know who you work for (I think I can guess!) and I'll avoid them.

There is no point of sale tracking in mainland EU so all figures quoted by MS or SONY are shipped. MS count consoles sold to retail/distribution. SONY historically have always counted consoles once manufactured as sold.....as ultimtaely they will be.

please please please, call gem, centresoft, koch, advantage, they all operate in this way, i didnt create this system i just trade under it, and have done for the last 10 years, please dont tell me the 28 day figure is rubbish you do not know what your talking about, call my suppliers and ask them, none of them will take back any consoles after 28 days of me buying it, so I can not replace it, sony, microsoft or nintendo then need to deal with the issue directly with the customer.

Sounds like you are mixing up the policies imposed on you by your supplier, ie. business to business with the law as written to cover consumers buying from you. If I buy a console from you that develops a defect within the first 6 months that I haven't caused then legally I am allowed a full refund and you have no legal right to refuse that. If you can't do the same with your supplier then that is no concern of mine and maybe you should change supplier or ask for better terms.

If trading standards have told you differently then you should raise their apparent flouting of contract law with the OFT. The contract of sale exists between retailer and consumer for a maximum of 6 years (5 in Scotalnd). There is NO contract between the consumer and the manufacturer. The law does not insist on a 6yr warranty per se, just that it MAY apply in certain circumstances.

Your assertion that the law should be applied differently across different retailers probably says it all. You need to look at yourself...

Youre bang on the money, mate. I cant stand these poxy indies who blatently try blag customers out of a refund/replacement for faulty goods. Indies, listen up-your issues with suppliers isnt the customers problem and by refusing to offer refunds for faulty goods bought from you you are effectivly breaking the laws set by trading standards. A-holes.

omg its like bein back at school.
do any of u actually know the law or just bein thick ?
try looking under electiral good sales of good act some larger companies may have the money to swap stock as they can do so whats an indepentant ment to do if they cant send it back to suppliers hav loads of broken consoles and im sorry jb u sound like a knb that works in gamestation, and look at trading standards and the law for electrical goods act and if ms has this much a problem they shouldnt really be making consoles i hate people that actually think they know everythink without actually knowing jack about business or the law.

If an indie cant send it back to the supplier then thats the indies problem not the customers. As a consumer I bought the product with the retailer, not the supplier and so it stands that any issues are dealt with via the retailer-thats the law. End of.

If youre an indie and you cant function your business properly within the laws set by trading standards then you shouldnt be in business at all.

Heres hoping that many more two-penny indies are forced under by the chains and supermarkets.

I don't wish people out of business or out of jobs but I still agree with the 'trade within the law' ethos. If that can't be done then don't do it, I don't see how there is an argument here....Don't sell 360's if you don't want to take the greater than usual risk that they will break.

The argument that the indies here are putting is quite simply that theyre hard done by and so feel they can exact the law as they see fit. Which is total rubbish and morally wrong. As I say, if the indies cant manage their business properly then they should stop practicing it, not come up with made-up, bullshit policies that arent worth the paper theyre written on.

I have no worrires about indies like Henry Ford here going under if they practice such shady business practices, the sooner him and other inides like him go under, the better.

Xbox jasper units now have excellent reliability.
SquareTrade rate it as having a failure rate of under 1%.

This compares to a PS3 failure rate of 10%!

Roll on the 250gb Super Elite bundle in Oct.
A 250gb Jasper Elite, 2 wireless controllers and a copy of the latest Forza game.
For a few € less than the price of the new 120gb PS3 slim.

Bargain.

this is hardly surprising... the 360 was out a year before the ps3, im fairly certain that if ps3 was out a year before 360 , the ps3 would be much more than 1m in lead, as you dont need any additional things like adapter(£60),xbox live(£40)yearly, that amounts to more than ps3 rrp, plus ps3 has built in power adapter, doesnt scratch discs, has blu-ray the most advanced video and sound quality in the world, has MORE exclusives than 360 unlike believed, doesnt need tacky AA batteries for controllers, has twice as much battery life, high quality headsets, slimline edition is s**ual, graphics are better, and the processor is 10x 360 processor so there is no need in ps4, they can simply upgrade game quality, and tht means like 10x less lagg than 360...:p

oh wow a 250gb hdd, super elite.... we can have up to 10000gb, for a few dollars less, if u want xbox live for online its minimum £40 per year. then u need a £60 adapter, and how is that a bargain excatly, the 360 has barely any features when u buy it, you need to spend LOTS of money to get half the features of ps3, also that is complete bull, ps3 failure rate is roughly 0.01%, the only way you can increase that rate is by downloading illegal files of the web which could contain a virus, i have 100friends on my ps3, non of them know anyone with a broken ps3, i also know 5 friends whos 360 have rrod LIAR

look. its true both consoles have better features, the xbox has better communication , but the ps3 has stronger online capabilities, the 360 has a comfier controller, but the ps3 controller is more responsive, the 360 has halo 3 but ps3 has res2, the 360 elite is quiter and more capable, the ps3 slim is also quieter and more capable, the overall prices are similar, but new for all of the same features the 360 costs more, not a lot more but more. undeniably the graphics on ps3 have more CAPABILITY which is why games like killzone 2 have incredible graphics, but the same game on different consoles is practically the same, it depends on the quality tv you have... please stop screaming and crying and just read these facts.

Why is it always these particular bits of news that have pages of replies.? Video gamers are really quite childish.

The stigma is well deserved.

u gotta know that the sales number of xbox 360's are always going to be off. honestly i think microsoft should count only unique ones sold not the ones that ppl rebought because of rrod.