No doubt this story will soon be followed by various developers lamenting used and calling for it to be banned/outlawed.

Fact is that the first half of the year was devoid of any massive releases which sold well for more than a few weeks - plus most of the releases there were screamed "I'll be cheaper in the next sale" - which left most gamers picking up the stuff they missed from a crowded Xmas 08 schedule.

Not to mention that cheaper games will always sell in a recession - and that all the retailers have really gone into overdrive to get customers this year - another fact developers miss; developers do not SELL their game, they make it. Retail plays a big part in selling the game when it launches. Build value into your title and preowned is not an issue. Release another six hour completion time fix and it will crowd the shelves.....

"No doubt this story will soon be followed by various developers lamenting used and calling for it to be banned/outlawed."

Don't worry, digital distribution will solve this problem big time.

I think too many industry people are hedging their bets on digital distribution. Consumers are not ready to pay approx 75% of current RRP for a digital copy of a game with no physical media and no re-sale value. Not forgetting that not everyone has broadband. And when everyone does have broadband, who is going to pay the consumers BT bills etc when they go over their monthly d/l limit for one game lol, so many avenues have not been considered, but after being in retail for 15 years I know consumers will not stop buying preowned games for many many years to come.

HA! Why are you talking about GAME Stores Group and then showing a picture of a preowned shelf from a Gamestation store!!!

Come on - get your facts right

Gamestation is part of Game Stores Group.

Do keep up!

Jon - I'm saddened by your views on Developers and think they need addressing.

Firstly, in most cases it is the publisher who finally controls the quality, value and content which is included in a game when it is released. This is usually finalised at greenlight stage.

Secondly, Developers have every right to complain about lost revenues due to pre-owned sales. In many cases they will have worked flat out on a title over several years seeing it grow from initial concept to a final product they can hopefully be proud of.

While I'm not disputing the value retail can deliver in making a product successful I recommend you spend a few weeks working at a developer to understand the sheer level of emotional and financial investment involved. It would be a real eye opener

I don't deny that some developers are in a "development bubble" but equally some retailers are in a "retail bubble"....

Sorry Matthew, why would a developer complain about any sales figures when their income is supplied by the publisher, not the retailer? If you are in the games industry, then you should be aware that publisher/developer deals are fixed figure deals to produce a game to certain specifications, within a fixed timescale.

If you complete that game within the deadlines, then you get a fee. If that game sold 100 million copies, you would still get that fee... if the game sold 10 copies, you would still get that fee.

The number of copies sold is irrelevant to the developer in every aspect other than it dictates the amount of money a publisher will spend on the next project. The only situation where that is different is if the developer self-publishes.

If you find a developer that is pre-occupied with sales figures, then you have found one that isn't dedicating enough thought to making the game. These are the typical "businessman" run studios that get sold off and closed when the business deal makes more sense than the core functionality of the business. Developing is about "making games", publishing is about selling games, there's a massive difference.

And GameDev, DD won't solve any problem "big time". All it will do is stop the genuine user having a product. That doesn't solve any problem, it simply demostrates the arrogance of parts of the industry, that seems to think games are above the rights of the gamer. Half baked, digitally-distributed shovelware that exploits gamers with "held back" DLC, is nothing for this industry to be proud of.

I'm also a game developer, I have been for nearly 24 years. This industry should be about making games, about providing the gamer with value-for money entertainment, that is worth the money they spend on it. I don't know how it is slipping to be about "giving the gamer as little as possible and getting as much in return", but DD does nothing but exactly that.

I will continue to buy used from those developers who deserve exactly that. Regardles of how long it took, a high percentage of games are not worth half the price they sell for. Give me something worth £40, and I'll spend £40. Give me something worth £10, and I'll buy used at £10. I'll lose no sleep over it, in fact, I will be happy knowing that my actions have sent a reminder to that developer that their games wasn't worth the new price. I would fully accept that if a game I worked on resulted in the same actions from someone else, then it probably deserved it.

Working on a game for a long time does not necessarily make a product good, you only have to look at GT PSP for evidence of that.

Top post Lee - nothing else to add

LeeC, what kind of dev are you if you don't care about sales? I doubt you have 24 years experience developing games (or you live in wonderland). I'm a self publishing indie dev creating casual games for the last 2 years. I sale direct and through portals. 90% of my incomes are coming through DD. So, now may be you guys can't see the future but DD is coming like it or not. Kids are used to not having a physical product. Look at music. Broadband is spreading too. PSPGo anyone? Can you remind me witch new gen console hasn't got online functionality? Just wait for the next “NextGen” to arrive. I’m not saying that retail will disappear, it won’t. But DD will take over retail BIG TIME. It makes sense to a lot of people in the industry: Dev/Publisher/Hardware manufacturer/even gamers (and all these players, except LeeC are pushing forward DD).

I have read MCV for a long time - and LeeC has probably submitted the best post I have ever read on these pages.

If I might just put in my two cents worth.....

The jokers that are ruining this industry need to be shot. People, Digital Distribution is not "coming", it is already here. Take Burnout Paradise. How succesful was that on PS3 through the Network? It was so succesful that after the disastrous sales, EA caved and released the Burnout Paradise Ultimate Box at retail, and it obliterated the sales of the online version. Same could be said for Fallout 3 on 360, and if DD is so much the future - why the hell do they keep releasing "Game Of The Year" editions of games like CoD, Fable 2, Gears Of War et al?

Digital Distribution will have it's share of the market. The tech savvy people will embrace it. PSPGo is hardly going to make a dent in the market (as retail simply isn't supporting it) but for the iPod generation - it is perfect for them. DD already has it's own share of the market, but for me and many MANY other gamers, having the physical product in our hands is worth more than saving a fiver.

And, at the end of the day, if utter drivel games such as Prototype, Terminator Redemption and Harry Potter continue to be released that do not justify their price tags, I and MOST other gamers will trade them in for some other sap to be used at half the new price. With DD what do I do? Delete it and lose all my money.

Fair play to GAME in many ways - they use pre-owned to protect their business in a year of economic gloom and, frankly, rubbish new games (save a couple). It always gets me that if you go into your local GAME store, they never seem to have many copies of Call Of Duty 4, yet seem to be inundated with things like Resi Evil 5 and Tomb Raider. If the game was entertaining, people wouldn't trade it in - the publishers only have themselves to blame.

Regardless of the trade-in argument, Digital Distribution will not solve pre-owned. Why would I pay £20 for Mass Effect on Xbox Live, and wait about 10 hours for it to download, when I can go to Gamestation, buy it pre-owned for £10 and get £5 back 2 weeks later when it's finished?

Seems like the publsihers/devs arugument regarding the sales of pre-owned has been completely owned in this thread.

Why?

Well that's easy.

They never had an argument in the first place.

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