Sorry i know some of the guys reading this will be indie retailers but you gotta love that ASDA price ching ching!

will gamestation still pricematch the game if the initial store (In this case Tescos Or ASDA's) Are out of stock ?? And which news paper has the games advertised in their paper ?

We Indies have to pay £36.80 wheres the fairness in that or is it as MCV letter from a few weeks ago from an ASDA employee states all Discounting is down with the agreement and help from the Publishers.

It seems that after all their moaning EA don't mind their premium product being cheapened along with the nations Beans and Bread.

On the upside I am about to cancel my EA order from Centresoft and go to Tesco and Asda for my stock so Happydays.

Its not like I will need huge amounts now as all my customers were expecting Asda and Tesco to do something like this

I think this will upset Game and Centresoft i feel many Indie orders will be cancelled.

why the need to sell at £24.99 very sad.

i thought they had got over the whole selling at a loss attitude recently.

was looking forward to selling this triple A product makes me nervous about pre-ordering any future big profile products as why bother when we would make a massive loss at the supermarket price.

I guess I'll be going to Asda for mine then.

This game is one of those I definitely deem worthy of a "new" purchase. The simple fact is, that anything above the agreed publisher rate is of no concern to me. If the game is sold at £30, £40 or £50, the developer sees the same figure in return. As long as they get their fair share, then that's fine.

As a developer myself, my only concern is that the gamer is able to get the game at the best price possible. If retail doesn't make a profit, then I really don't mind/care... I don't make games for the retailer, I make games for the gamer.

To be quite frank, I also wish they would find a way of branding retailer boxes to stop all this stock re-selling. That way, if a Tesco box was found in another shop in any other state than used, then the retailer could take action. Either that or put a 1 item limit on purchases, so it at least makes it inconvenient.

I keep meaning to investigate the legality of buying a product that has had VAT added, and then reselling that product with additional VAT, sounds pretty dodgy if you ask me. I'll have to make a note to remind me.

same story different year, it always starts with this title, thats why we ordered low and will be cleaning out asda and other supermarkets since its below cost price @ csoft, sorry have to do this in order to keep trading, not interested in the vat thing, as no one knows where i bought my fifa from, just sealed games

Leec it is my understanding that Inland Revenue is not interested in where you got it from but only the VAT on what you personally sold it for

If you buy a game from asda they only pay VAT on what they sell the game for to you and when you sell it you only pay the VAT on the difference between what you bought it for and wheat you sell it for
Essentially you only pay VAT on the Profit you make

brilliant! im so skint at the moment theres no way id be able to afford the game for 50 or even 40 pounds but 25 pounds cant go wrong :-) and why are you on shopkeepers? im not fussed about your profits just as long as the developers get there money which they will as asda and tesco pay them when they buy there stock not when i buy the game. lets hope we see the same with pes and modern warfare :-D

I fulyl support selling games at £25. £40 for a game is stupid and not worth it. If you look at the price of ps3 exclusives from the past 18 months like MGS4, LBP etc you can get them for £10 now. Sorry to the indi retailers, but you're in the wrong business! In an economic crisis i use the internet to find the cheapest possible price for any new game. Almost all new games can be aquired for £25 within the first 2 months of release these days, all thats required is a little bit of patience and searching.

Consumer rights before small businesses!

why is purchasing goods from another store then selling them on illegal?

good luck with your research.

if we pay VAT on the goods then what is the problem?

25 pounds for fifa 10 is the least of indi retailers worries - the fact that no-one will be buying games on discs by the time the ps4/xbox720 are here is a bigger problem! time to diversify!!!!!1!!

Morrisons and Sainsburys have been particularly aggressive lately can't wait to see what they will do

Dump your Centresoft stock now Cancel it do what you can then go out at midnight to all supermarkets selling at midnight then go out in the morning to thos that open at 8am

Then sell the lot for whatever you can to ensure you make a profit

I ordered 50 copies on 360 from amazon back in August at £31.29 including VAT

Which will be delivered Friday Morning

To all you gamers out there please do not assume we Indies are money grabbing wingers about what these supermarkets are doing

I personally want the price of games to come down considerably because the cheaper the game is the more we will sell.

I would love to see all 360 and PS3 games on sale at £25.

But at the moment the Publishers sell these games for us to sell at £36.80 to £37.17. So when we see supermarkets selling the game at £25 with the Publishers help we feel very agrieved that these games cannot be offered to us at the same price so that we might be able to offer customer value.

How would you feel if you had to pay a lot more council Tax than your neighbour who has the same value house just because he was friendly with the Councillor

Indie RIP - I certainly feel sympathy for anyone trying to operate a business under these conditions. And I wouldn't for one minute accuse any retailer of trying to rip off punters by charging more than the supermarkets so as to make at least some profit.

But what irks some readers here, I think, is the attitude from some retailers that we sometimes hear on MCV who say that us consumers should feel in some way obligated to support indies by chossing them over supermarkets and paying the higher prices that result.

I recognise the value of indie retail and in a world of price parity would certianly shop at them. But am I willing to pay £10 or even £20 more for the cause? Of course not! If I can get the game for £29 from Tesco then that's where I'll be going.

The real king here has to be the consumer, not the retailer. And lower prices, for us, are good. Publishers and developers won't suffer as a result. And if certain retailers do then isn't that simply proof that their businesses are no longer viable in the now mass-market games industry?

Simon Cleft
Thankyou for you kind words and support and I understand that the key to all of this is the best value for the customer

As a business we must also look at staying alive

So the customers wants cheaper games so they can afford to play them

We want cheaper games so that customers buy more small margin but vaolume sales would be acceptable

The developers want cheaper games so that everyone can appreciate their work

SO IS IT THE DISTRIBUTORS CENTRESOFT, GEM, KOCH EA AND ACTIVISION TAHT ARE CAUSING THESE PROBLEMS

All we want is a fair price to allow us to give value to the customer

Supermarkets killed the bookshops with discounting and it won't be long before all the gaming indies go the same way.

But that's the thing, Indie RIP - there isn't anyone to blame as there isn't a problem.

If the result of the mass-market broadening of gaming and bulk-buying by supermarkets is brand new triple-A games for £25 then the situation is brilliant!

Again, I don't want to seem callous, but once a product becomes mass-market then it's all good news for the consumer. The bad side, if there is one, is the demise of the indie. And yes, that's sad of course, but ultimately if indie's offered a strong enough proposition there wouldn't be a problem. The fact is, they don't.

That's the fact that I think is often forgotten here on MCV. The market shouldn't have to adjust to protect indie retailers. The indies need to adjust to the changing of the market. And if they can't? Well, that's market evolution, isn't it? Indies are so quick to criticise the poor service offered by supermarkets, but if the service they offered was valuable in the eyes of the consumer we wouldn't keep going to supermarkets.

But the truth is, it's not that valuable. Price is paramount. That truth is the reason why indie retail is dying out in every sector. It's an ethos at the very heart of capitalism and the notion that 'things should be done' or 'rules should be changed' to protect indies is nonsense.

In the end, it's the strongest that survive. And the strongest will nearly always be the biggest. It's natural selection.

Good points simon but will the supermarkets be offering a trade in service when they put the FIFA 10 price up to a higher price.

fact is as an indie shop we offer part exchange like other specialist game shops so yes we will survive and hopefully give the customer a good servicel in the process.

and can i just ask if you feel the people that purchase from tesco and asda online are going to be happy when they find out they are paying around £15 more than they could have purchased instore.

now thats Asda price (confusing)

I'd have to trade in one very good game or at least a couple of bad ones at an indie to get FIFA 10 for the same price I would from Asda. Next time I happen to have a pile of games I want to get rid of I might consider it - but I don't right now so that's a moot point.

And on that topic, I often find that I'm unable to trade in many of the games I have got from idies as they're dodgy Euro grey stock and GAME won't accept them!

trade in a new game and most indies and Game would give around £20 - £25 leaving around £15 to pay for FIFA 10.

my customers seem happy enough.

was just stating a point that as an indie we are trying our best to offer the best prices possible and by offering a trade in service we can compete.

It is a well known conspiracy that all Indies provide publishers and Disties with their profits.

Your UK Video game industry needs Indies, we provide around 20% of the UK's Market share to a mix of all the publishers turnover.

Because its us that support all the crap from publishers all year round apart from the next four weeks. This sees supermarkets do Fifa, COD, WWE, PES and prob FORZA at low prices.

In this period when indies stock and re-stock from asda all they are doing is fueling ASDA's market share and they need more units.

My point is i sadly agree with simon it is evolutuion, supermarkets will take over all because its naturally easier for the consumer. Before long you will be able to get your hair cut there (Ascuts) or temporarly lease a living quarter (Asdhotel) They're the big boys because they have low prices and they have pushed and pushed for the last 20years.

Indies make a decent living working for themselves without any boss. We occassionally drop onto a nice little money earner which makes us feel human, warm and happy inside!

Realisticaly when supermarkets do this, its green for us indies, because we make good profit on new releases too. (for a change)

I think when csoft do great deals on things like Batman and Gem with Dirt 2 and Flashpoint 2 the title that supermarkets miss it give us chance to beat GAME & GAMEstation and we are happy.

We are also moaning far to early coz Fifa isnt released yet and we have only scratched the surface with national discounts. Game will do their crazy 20 quiderz. GAMEstation scare of the week. Currys crappy 8 game console deals with Antz racing and WW2 tankz. But releasticaly we will still have a good xmas if we are competetive enough and dont get greedy.

That reminds me i can do my shopping at 11:59pm on thursday this week

@INDIE RIP Your comment

"SO IS IT THE DISTRIBUTORS CENTRESOFT, GEM, KOCH EA AND ACTIVISION TAHT ARE CAUSING THESE PROBLEMS"

The distributors essentially buy their stock from the publisher then sell it on to Indies and indeed other distribution. Distribution need to add their margin so they can pay their own bills. I know companies like Amazon use disties because they pick and mix some of their titles and it is easier to get different publishers product from one source, I think that price is negotiated between the publisher and Amazon ( if still the case).

An Indie Buying Group has been mentioned and tried before to try and build direct relationships with Publishers. Sorry Indies, but if you really wanted this you could mjke this happen prove to the publishers that you all have 20% market share, can grow this and can maximise publishers presence and profits in this area. Asda and tescos do not just turn up and hold their hand out for stock.

Indies give it a rest, no one owes you a living.

Just so you know, Asda have confirmed that the £25 price we quoted was inaccurate. We'll have to wait until Friday to see what they go with. We've not heard from Tesco yet, but other sources have seemingly confirmed their price.

So how did people get on cancelling their orders?

@JB Where has anyone said they are owed a living?
They are angry at paying £36+ for a title that the supermarkets are selling for £25-£28. The games all come from the same publisher, centresoft aren't making £11 margin on the title so it is the publisher, EA conning the indies.

Centresoft should grow a pair and tell them they want better prices.

Yeah, so and what?

I want cheap games. The supermarkets can supply, the indies can not. Not my problem indies are getting stung. As I said, I or anyone else who buys games dont owe the indies a living.

Give me or any other consumer why anyone should buy games from a local indie at £40-50 when anyone can get them cheaper via the supermarkets and online?

You cant give me a reason because it doesnt exist. Indies are a thing of the past.

I understand that consumers want products as cheap as possible. However as this is a trade website retailers should be able to comment on cost vs retail price without being accused of thinking they are 'owed a living'

All indies want is a fair trade price structure with some transparency.

Indies realise supermarkets are buying in large quantity, but at the moment their are only 2 prices. Supermarkets pay sub £25, indies pay £36+. The cost price of games should be staggered on quantity, neither Centresoft, Gem or Kock ever offer a price break based on quantity.

In my eyes the price of a EA Title should be more like:

1 unit £36
20+ units £34
100+ units £32
1000+ units £28
10000+ units £24

I reckon EA would go for 10,000 copies at £24.00 a pop on day one copies!

Any indies want to club together and pay for centralised distribution?

This is getting beyond silly now I just cant get my head around the thinking of CS. Supermarkets (imo) only stock the AAA games at this time of year yet we as indies have to stock almost all games as our customer bases are diverse not just mums and dads getting the kids a game whilst out on there shop. I myself have just cancled my order of Fifa as i will be purchasing all i canf rom asda after confirming in store price with several contacts in Asda stores at 26.71

All we are saying is we would like a near level playing field all our triple A's as we support publishers all year.

At the start of the year i herd rumours of EA struggling and they were going to support indies alot better. Which to be honest they have. Bundle stock is always nice + they have done some kick ass deals all year with different IP's

Csoft do need to be a bit more Aggressive with its exclusive publishers activision and EA, Day 1 is poor and very frustrating for us. Gem i think have sorted Codies deals so well all year round (apart from ashes)

JB we are not a thing of the past because we can always make a decent living and still be happy, we are own boss and despite what you say we will always have a customer base because of what we offer.

NO BODY OWES US ANYTHING - We work hard for our living, I offer oyu a job for 2 weeks and you see it from our side and until then stop being a boring Boo boy!

I don't usually say much in support of indies on here but jb has pushed me into some show of support....

JB: You miss the point entirely. Tell me this; when you get fed up of Fifa or one of the other three titles the supermarkets will make an effort on, will Tesco or Asda trade it in ? No. If you have a problem with the game or want to return it because its not what you thought it was, will they let you? No. When you want a game that is not a thousand seller, will the supermarkets stock it? No. When you get to Asda to find all the stock is gone, will they care? No.

This pricing is hurting everyone from online specialists, to high street specialists, to indies. Too many consumers do not realise that the supermarkets only want videogames to grab market share to sell consumers the other higher ticket items they sell. They'll only stock the biggest titles, they don't care for promotions all that much, they'll only reduce what they get for pennies (Golden Compass...) and they do not care for gamers.

The supermarkets have clout because of sales volume and market share, nothing else.

Having said all of the above, I have seen various local indies and heard of many others selling the game before street date at £40-£50 - doing stuff like this does not help anyone but themselves, any indie in the business should have known a silly season price war was likely on this because it is every year, and will be on Pro Evo, and will be, to a lesser degree, on COD6.

No doubt JB and sundry others will be complaining when they come to trade Fifa in for PES or something and they get offered about £20 for it.... if that!

Centralised distribution - Bring it on

What do I do with my finished games? I sell them on ebay and Amazon and have ALWAYS got a much better price than the, quirte frankly, dismal trade offers Ive recieved in high street stores. So again, your argument falls apart.

Indies will only last as long as they have something to offer and that, Im afraid, with online trade sites like ebay, DLC and massive price cutting, is becoming less and less each year.

As for returning games to the supermarkets Ive never had a problem, in fact theyve been more accomodating than many of the high street retailers Ive dealt with in the past who can be difficul;t bastards the best of times.

...and if teh supermarket hasnt got it then online shops have-and again cheaper.

Sorry guys, youve no argument. Accept it.

Ignore JB he doesn't 'get' this industry or this site. He is entitled to his opinion though, and there a re a lot more like him out there.

I honestly believe there is a place for indies, across all sectors in the UK. i run my own business and whilst i don't get much support from, in my case, manufacturers and suppliers, what I do get enables me to compete almost head on with larger chains. margins are tight but on key products I can offer short term price parity and draw custom to my business. I have found that once i get a customer on something key I see them again when they are after something else, despite me not selling milk bread and papers.

I get this industry well enough to understand that indies do nothing but whine about not getting a fair deal and somehow feel that consumers owe them something just because theyre a dedicated games retailer.

Yes, ignore the consumer, its what indies are best at. Thankgod the likes of ASDA, and even GAME, understand that were not made of money.

You are a plonker JB LOL

You dont have a clue JB, you dont deserve to play games.

This site should be for trade only and not for people like JB. This gives everyone in the trade to express their feelings.

How can you all be so quick to judge JB's comments. If that was not a defensive attack from the declining indie industry, i dont know what is? I mean the guy has pointed out exactly what most consumers are thinking. I am going to buy my games for the cheapest price and thats it. I could not give two hoots whether you indies fall by the wayside or not. This is all about the consumer and not your lack of profits. The games industry has changed.. the only reason i may pay an extra few quid from an indie, is because i may get it a little earlier and am to impatient to wait for the release date.. (GTA IV ;-)). Fifa is one of those AAA titles like PES that most of us end up buying the upgrade each year.. and as we get next to nothing for the previous incarnation when we upgrade, the cheaper we get it the better!! sorry, but how can you have ago at JB for stating the obvious! Although i have never known game to sell anything cheap and there trade in prices are crap.. hence EBAY!

peter well said, all that crap about indies not caring and ignoring the consumers what a load of tosh, indies offer the best service around,unrivalled thats why we are in this business im sure martha at morrisons can tell you what game to buy when your not sure or let you have a shot on her till to let you see if you like it before you buy it,its a shame that we get clowns like jb & chris on here they forget its the indies that have helped build this industry up to what it is today thats why we complain.

Unable to accept simple facts the indie retailers go on the defensive and start hurling abuse. How mature.

Havent got a clue, Dillion? I think its the indies that are clueless and, looking at the attacks presented here, have their heads clearly stuck up their collective backsides.

The Indies may well have built this industry but consumers have short memories and very little loyalty. They may be willing to forego a pound or two price difference to support their local shop, but beyond that they will tend to go after the best price they can find without much hassle. Since supermarkets are everywhere it's extremely easy for them to pick up these great deals. It's not fair that the Indies cost price means they can't compete on price with the supermarkets, just as it's not fair that farmers lose money on the milk that they sell to supermarkets. But you know what? Customers just don't care - about the farmers or the independant game retailers - they just want low price and convenience.

It's a shitty situation and if you asked people whether they'd support legislation to balance the playing field I'm pretty sure most would say yes. Ask them if they're prepared to pay more to help out and I'd bet almost all would say no.

Gamebarukind seems to have the right idea - take on the supermarkets at their own game with collective buying. It has proven successful for thousands of independant grocers, perhaps it can do the same for game retailers.

And why shouldnt I be allowed, as a consumer, to have my say peter? All youve done is given weight to the majority opinion that the independent retail sector cares little for the consumer-unless of course theyre paying your high prices.

Well done.

Again, this idea that consumers should in some way harbour loyalty to independent retail is absurd. Indies may have been a staple part of the industry in days gone by - but is the result of this that I should in the present day pay over the odds to reward them for their work of the past? Of course not.

And yes, of course, a unified indie buying body is the answer. But it's been tried so many times and has never succeeded. Indies are just that - independent. They've never mustered the unity needed to build such a buying power.

I have now got emails out to Asda, Tesco, Trading Standards and BBC Watchdog over this bulk stock buying/re-selling practice. I have recommended to Asda/Tesco that they put a per-customer limit on buying to prevent bulk purchases.

I read on the XBox forums one Indie was bragging about how he and his partner were going to Asda to buy 50-100 copies. The games industry doesn't need people like this between the developer and the gamer.

I am in the process of posting on some of the gaming forums and Facebook (in fact, I might even start a group) to raise awareness of this, and am hoping that the gamers are going to stand up and be counted.

Bottom line is, if you think you're clever by using this practice to deprive gamers of games at the price they deserve, simply because you're not making a profit, then don't expect the developers to sit back and let you do so.

If you think that's unfair, then spend 20+ years learning to make your own games, and sell those for as much as you like.

Damn right. I'll be will pissed off tomorrow if I get to Tesco and there aren't any copies left 'cos some greedy indie has bought them all so he can make a bit of profit. As a consumer, I have the right to buy from the cheapest seller. Indies DO NOT have the right to buy up all that stock in an effort to force me to apy more. It's a sickening practice.

And thats another thing about indies; they buy up all the cheap stock and then sell them at a premium stopping people from taking advantage of good deals. Bunch of bloody tosspots!

Yes, the sooner there are less indies the better.

Well, I wouldn't got that far. But I'm not sure how indies can hope to win the affections of the public that apparently should feel some sort of loyalty to them whilst at the same time clearing out supermarkets so as to make us pay more. Double standards to the extreme. They show us zero respect but expact loyalty and affection from us? What a load of shit.

And thats just it Simon, the Indies want their cake an eat it.

Like I said, good fuckin riddence to the lot of them.

Youll also notice the indies who were all to quick to call us names for not supporting their cause have now, in the light of not having a leg to stand on in this debate, have gone all quite.

Truth hurts I guess.

Not all indies buy from supermarkets, only a small amount. As with nationals, supermarkets, they have a good bunch and bad bunch.
This is a trade site, dont forget that. People like JB need to be kicked off and sent to a consumer site. Lets not forget this is a trade site so indies have every right to complain etc on here, without people like JB.

Simon, you've made a couple of decent points but that opinion borders on hypocrisy.

To say that we customers have the right to the cheapest prices but at the same time to deny that right to independants sounds an awful lot like the kind of double standard of which you accuse them.

Yes I'd feel annoyed if I wasn't able to buy a copy at the cheapest price but if their choice is pay £36 wholesale or £26 from the local supermarket - If I was in their shoes I know where I'd get my stock.

As with consumers indies also have the right to aquire stock from the cheapest source. If that happens to be asda over CS so be it. I will be buying as much stock as i can this evening

@ JB & Simon Cleft

What actually is your agenda?

Are you really just a games playing consumer looking for the best deal, or do you have someother interest in this discussion?

The reason you'll get to Tesco tommorrow and find their are no copies is because they have sold the realatively low numbers they had in stock already. Blame the supermarkets, for tricking you. They may have spent thousands of pounds putting adverts in the newspapers at their low prices, but they don't actually match this with a large stock of the games.

@LeeC

Again, what is your agenda? Work for a Supermarket?

This 'bulk stock buying/re-selling practice' is a bit of a myth, it is the supermarkets that are conning you. Try to buy a New & Sealed game in Asda, you can't they're all opened. Are you going to email about that to Watchdog? The same is true in most Tesco stores, gone are the display boxes, gone is the mint stock in security cases - just real boxes opened up.

Buying a item from A and selling it to B is capitalism, it is not illegal, immoral or corrupt.

I will not stop supporting indies i havnt gone quite but im busy selling all the CS stock i have of fifa at 45 quid so i dont get stuck with overpriced stock. Then im off to asda tonight to get restocked

I can assure you, Bob, that I don't have an a specific agenda and certainly don't work at a supermarket. My only agenda, if you want to call it that, is to stick up for the rights of teh consumer.

As a long-term MCV reader and user of the site, I tire of the very one-sided debates on these sorts of stories that are populated by indies moaning and calls for action to skew to very workings of capitalsim in their favour. That I should be forced to pay in excess of £10 more for a game because a GREEDY indie has bought the stock from a supermarket with the aim of charging me more for the same product makes my blood boil.

The hypocricy, sir, is in the demands here that we consumers show loyalty for indies. These same indies who would deliberately take action to make me pay more.

I'm coming back to this site tomorrow once I've got my £28.99 copy of FIFA 10 from Tesco in the morning just to let you all know that youi weren't able to trip me off this time.

"skew to very workings of capitalsim in their favour"

Where is anyone trying to do this?!

"the demands here that we consumers show loyalty for indies"

Where has anyone asked for this? Most indies airing their thoughts on this site are aiming their opinions at the perma silent CS who are overcharging the indies for this title.
Obviously no retailer can survive without customers, but it is not the customers indies are addressing on this site.

Indies simply want the opportunity to sell Fifa 10 at a comparable price to other retailers, while making a profit.

I see the flaming goes as usual about such a sensitive topic such as pricing. In my own view: in my country when two big chains for electronics opened, they started dumping the prices on everything -- I was working in a PC store at the time, and they were selling BELOW the price they bought the products... which is illegal but cannot be proven, due to many facts including they have more money :) however when they nearly killed the PC trade, they started to sell at a larger margins than the specialized shops, because they have much more expenses so the lesson is: don't expect that the supermarkets will keep the prices low, this is just some product manager's delirious idea to try to "steal" market share from the indies. Customers must of course have the best price -- but before sending emails to "... Trading Standards and BBC Watchdog", you can ask yourself: are they buying this games for less than they sell it(do the supermarket make profit)? If they do, why don't they sell it to the indies for the same price ? The price will be GBP 26-27 at their shops also, the won't have to buy out the supermarket's stock, and the customer will have fair choice: go to the game store, or buy it with their groceries? If they do not make profit and selling it lose money, or don't make a reasonable profit (say 2-3 pounds, remember they have to pay their bills too..), then the dodgy ones are the supermarkets. Also in a country law, once a stock is for sale, save for liquor and tobacco you have the right to resale it at price as high as you wish - problem should be with the supermarkets not ensuring they have enough stock.

"The Indies may well have built this industry but consumers have short memories and very little loyalty."

That's from this thread. And it's something we hear time and time again.

I understand why indies are incensed at supermarket pricing. And I understand that you want nothing more than a level playing field on which you can compete.

But to do this you'd have to completely restructure the way capitalism works. Tesco is going to get a better price from Centresoft on 50,000 units than an idie will buying 20 units. You can't escape that reality.

Nor can you escape the reality that I'm delighted at the prospect of paying £28 for a £45RRP game.

I do use indies. I have a few games I'd be willing to trade but I'll be using them on a title that isn't so fiercely discounted by the supermarkets - probably Flashpoint or Forza. But when a game like FIFA is so cheap I'm happy to buy new without sacrificing any of my games.

I think the problem is as follows:
- Indies stock all releases whether big or small, supermarkets only pick the big releases. Indies get annoyed because they are loyal and stock all releases and still get screwed on big releases. If indies stopped stocking small releases, most of the small developers would not survive because supermarkers would not stock them and GAMEstation would only hold 1-2 copies per store. Its about loyalty which publishers/distributors dont care about. Indies hate selling games at £40 but have no choice.

Im amazed at the amount of indies on here on the one hand denying theyre in the wrong whilst on the other freely admiting they itend to bulk buy from the supermarkets to the sell to the consumer at a higher price.

what a bunch of total wankers.

JB your the biggest WA*K*R as you put it. I bet you are a hated person by everyone you know. Your consoles probably hate you too. lol

Why is MCV letting people like JB post on its forums?
Does MCV not control/monitor its forums?
If MCV wants consumers posting on here, why not have a forum for trade and another for consumers and twats like JB

@JB

Another articulate post!

You can't 'bulk buy' from the supermarkets, as they don't hold much stock of a heavily promoted/discounted title. Its just a ploy to get you instore.

Two points here.

Firstly, can we refrain from the swearing and petty name calling, please.

Secondly, we previosuly tried limiting comments to trade members only but later reverted to an open model for reasons I won't go into here.

We do moderate these comments. Whilst the comments of JB and Simon are clearly angering some of you, I can see no good reason to remove them. They are the public around which this all, ultimately, revolves. And their views as as valid as any other.

There are clearly two sides to this debate - indie's ability to operate and the consumer's want for lower prices. Both of which are totally valid.

Fair point Ben.

It would be good to seperate retail and consumers as they will become the norm as consumers want things cheap and indies being treated badly. No matter what anyone says indies are treated poorly..FACT.

I make no apologies for the posts Ive made here and the constant demand for my removal only serves to further prove everything said about the indies.

I will be, of course, writing to BBC Watchdog describing the underhanded tactics of independent games retailers bulk buying stock from supermarkets thus stopping genuine customers snatching up a bargain and being forced to either wait for a price drop or buying said products at premium prices.

And I would encourage any consumer to do this. Its time the lid was blown on this.

Does anyone representing Centresoft or EA care to comment?

@ Ben

No doubt you've highlighted the passionate replys to this story to Centresoft & EA. They are getting the indies to pay £36 for a game that is retailing for £25, as the official supplier to the independant trade, you would have thought they'd have an opinon.

Bob, the only ones here with any agenda are the independents. The agressive responses to the truth being layed out on the table say as much.

And for the guy who called me a 'plonker', (post now removed I believe), the only plonker is anyone who wanders into your store and puts down £45 for FIFA10.

Sickenly enough you'ld probably agree with that.

@ JB

Its great you going to Watchdog because if they do a show on it the public will see how indies are overcharged and this in turn will make publishers and distributors look bad and hopefully put pressure on them to change things. Indies are never heard as they have not got a voice that is listened to.

So you will be doing indies a favour by going to watchdog as people will see indies are overcharged and forced to buy from supermarkets. Well done buddy.

That's the thing! You're not being overcharged! Simple economics dictate that you're going to get something cheaper if you buy 10,000 of them than if you were buying 10! So Tesco will obviously get the game cheaper than an indie. That's just how trade and capitalism works! You guys are businnesmen, right? You do get this? I know it's harsh and unfair, but the world's like that sometimes.

Bill you really are an idiot. It will highlight the fact that instead of the indies challenging the suppliers/publishers yould rather just sting the consumer. Yeah, good one mate.

LOL This gets funnier by the minute.

£32.99 from 8am buy me. official i saw it on the system when they scanned a copy for me. they have over 20 on 360, and under 20 on ps3. Anyone else any info yet?

Not every indie buys stock from supermarkets, lets make this clear. A small amount do but majority buy from disties. We are selling at £39.99 at our store and have over 30 pre-orders on 360 and 20 ish on ps3. Before people say they wont turn up etc, most have paid fully or part paid a deposit on the game.
Just because a few indies say they will clear out supermarkets does not mean all indies are the same. Also do you really think the supermarkets will let the same person walk out with all 30-50 copies of the same game?
I hate the way the industry works with the silly prices etc. but thats life. We challange the disties but they have the upper hand (stock).
It will all change in future with the digital age and in the end consumers will miss retail because the rrp will be stuck to with the digital downloads which means no price discounting or part-ex etc.

People really need to understand that most indies have been selling games for 15-20 years, way before supermarkets etc and it is hard the way they are being treated. But hey thats life.

With regard to watchdog that is not going to happen just becuase a few indies have stated they will be buying from supermarkets. A few indies out of a thousand.

Hello,

I relly cannot see what all the fuss is about, I run an indie store myself and ok while I do not like what ASDA are up to, I do not see my store as doomed.

My best advice to other indie retailers is to take a step back and look at what your store is, where you are making money, what is getting customers through the door etc etc. with mine I listed about 11 different categories, they are, New Releases (gets them in), New Back Catalogue (margin maker), New Consoles (gets them in), New Accessories (1st party) (margin maker), New Accessories (3rd Party) (high margin maker), Pre-Owned Games (high margin maker), Pre-Owned Consoles (high margin maker), Pre-Owned Accessories (1st Party) (high margin maker), Repairs (gets them & margin maker), Impulse (pop bottles, pokemon cards, strategy guides) (margin maker) and misc (loyalty card sign ups and gift coupons etc.)

As you can see there are plenty of places for an indie to make a profit, even GAME CEO has admitted how good the margin on pre-owned is.

No-One makes money on new releases, no-one makes money on new consoles, these are sold to entice customers into your store and are the same items everywhere, it is up to you then what you do with your customer when they are inside your store, do you get them to buy their weeks groceries (ASDA) or trade in their other completed games (GAME, INDIES), to then resell at high margin, either outcome is created by a loss leading new release, and both outcomes result in profit for the retailer. Everyone though makes money on all the other aspects of their business and if you concentrate on these then you will not fail. There used to be 2 big game stores that were unable to get their new release customers to do anything else instore and hence attempted to survive on new release margin alone, they were wollies and zavvvi, where are they now?

Also, buy cheap stock from ASDA anyway, £26 is far too low for a game like this.

Martin

If they want to get more money than ASDA then why don't they just sell it by a little less money, because then more people would buy it then

Just bought my copy for the PS3 from Tesco at the bargain price of £24.97.

http://www.tescoentertainment.com/games/inspiration/ea-sports-at-tesco.list

Yep - I've got my £24.97 copy from Tesco next to me. In fact I have two as I also got one on behalf of a friend. The display was right at the front of the store and there were loads of copies.

I am an indie and know for a fact that a AAA title will sell at near to RRP (£40-45) until the supermarkets go out at £25 on it. What I can't understand is why the supermarkets do it.... yes they get people in store yes they might buy a tin of beans and a loaf of bread at the same time but surely making an extra £10-£15 per unit profit would make them more than that would ever hope to recover on someone doing a bit of extra shopping "whilst they are there", look at the people in stores at opening times on a Friday buying the new releases at the low prices... 98% of them are people on there way to work and that is the ONLY item they buy, possibly a packet of fags and a newspaper as well but can you see my point? Way before Woolies went under they were doing Prof Layton on DS at around £20 and you know what that was making on Ebay, if they had sold 100 units at the RRP that would have been an extra grand profit, if they did that on every title they might possibly have still been with us.

I know supermarkets aren't going to go bust and will always be here but who makes the decision to throw away profits and decide to make a loss on something that would be a MAJOR profit item for them in the quanitites they are likely to sell.

I got moaned at by my EA rep at CS for not taking as many as I did last year, told him it was too expensive (£32 + vat) and would rather just cover my orders and have a few for the shelf rather than get stuck with them and that was before I knew the supermarket price, I fully expected them to discount but not to that extent seeing as a lot of the new releases have been sold recently at our trade price (37 ish) and not the ridiculously low prices that have been seen before.

I seriously hope that this is not going to be the start of a major price war this Xmas, anyone and there dog will be able to sell COD2 at £48 (argos price) but if they supermarkets are going to go out at 30-35 (or less) our customers are once again going to think we are robbing them when in reality we are only making a few ( and a mean a few) quid, £4 profit on £50 is great isn't it? Don't you just love being an indie?!!?

"What I can't understand is why the supermarkets do it.... yes they get people in store yes they might buy a tin of beans and a loaf of bread"

Supermarkets spend a lot of money and time on getting people into their stores. Every aisle, every product, every display is there for a reason. Selling low cost games is just another trick to get you to (often subconsciously) to buy other stuff. Even if it is a tin of beans or a loaf of bread, it's all profit to them.

Good article on it here...

http://www.marketstormer.com/supermarket-store-layout.htm

Also,
if a supermarket buy 10,000 at £30 each, and sells them for £25, they need one person to do a weekly shop to make up the loss on 10 copies sold for example.

On that basis, they might break even or only make a small loss.

In the bigger picture, they can turn around and say "Look, we sold all our copies. Next AAA release we want to order double the amount, but for £28 each"

Again same rules apply, but they need one big shop to cover 5 copies.

Eventually they can go "We want 50,000 at £24 each"
They sell for £27.99 or some thing and start making profit on top.

I know theres more to go with it (staffing hours, delivery etc etc) but thats pretty much the reason they sell it cheap.
They make up the deficit in footfall and offset it against future releases.

Also, some bigger chains will have something like a 10% buy back from the supplier. If they buy a gazillion copies, they can return 10% of them to the disti at say £5 less than they paid for them. It may lose money, but its the same to them as selling it to the punter at £5 less than the supply price.

The points above on the great level of customer service you get at a specialist retailer are valid, as with most industries (ever gone for "specialist" advice when shopping for a TV at Currys?!), but you've got to bear in mind the simple fact that the vast majority of consumers don't need any customer service when it comes to buying a copy of Fifa 10, or most major titles.

The increase in available media channels ensures that consumers are far more educated on more and more titles before release, which reduces the need for advice in-store on simple purchases. Add that to the fact that so many more games are licences, movie tie-ins or sequels and again it reduces the need for consumers to require any input from educated staff before making their purchase.

Specialist retail is a great thing, but I'm not convinced the customer service point is relevant for something like Fifa 10.

Out of interest, and not meant as a leading question, do those of you who run / own an Indy store try to buy consumer goods from other specialist stores when you are purchasing other products, say a TV?

Download next - the retail market is dead!

Publishers cannot sustain such stupidity on behalf of the retailers!

I run an Indy store, so obvioulsy i get my personal game through the store, and i only allow myself and staff to have a modest discount. but that is ofset agains first pickings when stuff comes in.

As for specialist purchases.

Computer equipment, I cant buy it from local Indys as they do not stock the exact items i want. I research for weeks before buying a new graphics card and i will hunt out an exact model, then purchase it online from a Specialist site and only after checking prices. Bricks and Mortar sites dont offer that level of detail.

To be honest, and Home cinema Hifi i do exactly the same thing.

But for my glasses ill go to my local optician and im happy to pay more than going to a chain for them, i feel the service is far more personal.

Now when it comes to Music i have several rules, Rule one buy it at the gig when there on tour, the cash goes right into the artisits hand, and if im physically putting the cash into the hand of say the drummer even better! if i have to buy the CD I will first go to the indy record store in the city center and pay £5.00 over the odds to buy off them. If after failing the above and i cant get my hands on it ill go on amazon or ebay.

If you want to get the customer viewpoint check here...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/retailers-furious-at-price-slaughtering-by-supermarkets_5/comments

This argument won't even matter in a few years, specialist gaming retail stores are a dying breed.

PSPGo and iPhone are only the start of a shift to a more direct sales model which in-turn will eliminate the pre-owned market that publishers hate. This in turn should help to reduce new prices to something which customers will accept.

NB) Quite how GAME can sustain so many outlets in the same city is beyond me, once the investors catch on to the potential distribution shift it will be curtains.

we are an online indie and to have tesco and co sell the game for that pisses us off.

i can understand the arguments from both sides. Consumer wants game at cheapest price. Indie retialer moans because he can see his sales reduce to pretty much nothing for AAA titles that should have make him some money.

in my view the problem is not the indie retailer or the consumer (loyalty has been mentioned). the problem in this instance lies with the distributor.

to fully explain. if cSoft were selling the game to indies for the same price as supermarkets then all indies will go to distributor, cheaper copies will be available to customers, and indies can sell at a reasonable price.

to make it more obvious that cSoft are the company responsible for this mess think of the following. cSoft BUY all the stock from the publishers. most of other distributors do not (they work on consignment deals by which they get a certain amount for every title released)