while your at it could you shut the barn door as the horse has already bolted

Right decision, but too late.

John, I believe the horse has done very well for himself and set up a colection of stables in Tottenham court Road offering second hand DS machines with 250 games.

The sun shone, he made his hay if the Police ever come he will be gone away.

If this is a serious piece of legislation I am Loking forwards to reading about a series of "busts" in that Tottenham Court Road area.

Yes...it's too late for the DS market...

..but it's a good ruling to have in place ahead of the 3DS coming to the market...as it will strengthen their cases against similar devices in the future (in the UK at least).

Yep, far to late. You can buy handfuls of these at a variety of places. Car boots, markets etc... up and down the country. Pirates always find away.

Banning the R4 cartridge is entirely the wrong move. Whilst it is certainly a common device used to distribute DS roms, it's not the intended purpose of the device (which is to run unsigned code).

If we're going to ban distribution media on the basis that they can be abused for less than legal purposes, then I guess we'll just have to also ban recordable CDs, DVDs, cassettes, video tapes and more, because it's just as easy to distribute copyrighted material that way - even though that's not the intended purpose of the medium. Oh, and we'll also ban home PCs, because we can also very easily download and install pirated software on those too.

This is a UK law only, Spain and France have ruled these items legal. Only UK distibutors will be affected therefore people will just buy from the far east or other countries making it pointless.

The difference is these devices circumvent the manufacturers security measures to make them work. Blank cds do not.

This is no different to how things like Action Replay cartridges work - or even frontloaders used by arcade and quiz machines to bypass various measures in Windows environments. Do we ban those too? It's the exact same principle; bypassing manufacturer's security measures under a naive EU directive - which only itself exists to artificially further enforce regional pricing schemes by preventing (legitimately and lawfully purchased) region protected media from being imported and used by the consumer, (an amusing contradiction to an earlier EU directive to allow unrestricted global market competition).

Whilst the R4 cartridge may potentially allow the playing of copied games, it does not itself enable to copying of games - and this is the only reason it's sought to be banned. It's the same as the mod-chip farce of 2004, many aspects of last years Digital Economy Bill and more.

It's probably about time UK law stopped pandering to corporate demand on the basis that 'object x could potentially be used to do something naughty', and started affording the consumer some actual rights.

thats strange my friend tell that to my manager who has had to stop selling ds games simply because of r4, customers now come into the shop to ask what games are out they can download, they all think downloading is legal because you can buy the device in the first place, a women with 2 children said to me just yesterday i know its naughty but our r4 has saved us hundreds of pounds we can just download all the new games for free.
i dont believe people are buying the r4 for any other reason, you dont use your ds for mp3s. ds is a dead format priracy is the main reason, so dont tell me this device isnt to blame

i say to customers funny isnt it how you decide what laws are important enough to follow, piracy is ok, how about gun crime, drugs, the public see it as a no one gets hurt crime and everyones doing it all my neighbours have r4 so whats the harm. Its more about the mentality, there needs to be more fines here, this could really help the economy i have at least 15 names of customers who download and charge their friends and neighbours for games and r4s that they bought in bulk, along with all the top cinema releases, they have lists and email each other with them and put orders in, its like a part time business, but its ok cause it doesnt really harm anyone and everyone does it, morons

99.9% of people are using the R4 card to run illegally downloaded NDS roms. Anyone denying that is totally naive. Homebrew use is tiny and ironically the tool that developers need to run homebrew is the very same thing that has choked the life out of DS software sales.

You have to break a few eggs to make an omlette. Unfortunately the omlette got trampled by the horse bolting a long time ago.

So they have banned the "Brand name" DS copy card. Too late it's already been copied itself by the other piracy cards out there. The ruling should have covered any similar device but I guess some crusty non techy judge wont really understand.
As for the law "reverse engineering isn't a crime" There was also a does not fit must fit rule against anti competitive monopolies.

Er, I hardly think you can compare piracy to gun crime and illegal drug trafficking. No matter what you may like to think media piracy isn't even in the same ballpark.

im just making a point about how people dont think its important and even think its not a law thats enforced, wasnt piracy linked to more serious crimes like gun crime ? using the money made for other illegal activities, im just saying parents are showing their kids early on that illegal downloads are acceptable, so maybe the law is something that you can choose to abide by depending on how important you believe that law to be.

its like when you hear people trying to justify drink driving, oh everyone does it, i only live down the road, im a safer driver when ive had a drink,
you shouldnt drink the day after drinking but everyone does.
you know ive done it loads of times and never had a crash, again its the mentality

In the media and anti-piracy campaigns, yes, but one never actually seen any concrete evidence of this, only spin and scare tactics.

Regardless of the potential applications for pirated games, the fact remains that it's not the only application. This suggests that jailbreaking an iPhone is illegal, which given the opposite decision from the US this week seems pretty weird.

I'm not quite sure why circumnavigating Nintendo's security controls to play unsigned code should necessarily be illegal.

The statement “Nintendo promotes and fosters game development and creativity, and strongly supports the game developers who legitimately create new and innovative applications...” is a joke. They have attempted (understandably) at every turn to prevent homebrew with targetted Wii updates and revisions to the DS hardware, and not necessarily as a side-effect of blocking pirates. There is NO legitimate homebrew route to creating software, such as XNA (360) or iOS SDK (iPhone); both paid for and earning $millions for the parent companies, despite supposedly widespread piracy with mod chips and jailbreaking. Several apps that are now legitimate started off as homebrew on these platforms.

Sony has similar problems but has no legit route to homebrew, although to its credit at least offers PSP and PS3 dev kits to universities, even if there is no "budget" access to SDKs suitable for bedroom programmers.

NOTE: Buying R4s is not illegal, as far as I am aware. Only selling them. Making your own copies of ROMS that you own is not illegal; it's legitimate backing up, and there is homebrew software that will do this easily available. Only downloading ROMS (even if you own the games) or uploading ROMS for others is illegal. It is only this last stage that should be the target of legislation. Doing so would be far more effective.

I've gone on the record and in print defending the R4 technology; not piracy BTW even though I know that most users of R4s are just playing illegal games. :-( What would help would be easy, convenient, affordable ways to download games legitimately. Look at what iTunes (based heavily on the earlier, illegal Napster) has done. It has not eliminated illegal downloads, but has provided a legit route that is so straightforward that it is simpler than flashing hardware, ripping ISOs, etc, and has, therefore, been successful. It has also embraced a financial model, a new form of marketing, that is as much a threat to traditional games companies as MP3s were to the Music Publishers. Music is thriving. Companies stuck in old (once lazily lucrative) business practices are not. Nintendo and the like need to beware. They need to change. R4 technology is the start of that change. Banning it is putting your finger in the dyke.

P.S. I own R4 cards, as well as 3 DS/DSi handhelds. I have never even downloaded an illegal ROM. I have enjoyed many homebrew apps, as well as coded enough to know that homebrewers are worth encouraging. When the 3DS version of the R4 comes out. I will be buying one. And then I will be sat down trying to code 3D graphics.

While I do not condone piracy I remain unconvinced as to the extent of the damage has done in this case. How much money would a pirate spend on games if he/she could no longer download them? Have the publishers actually lost any sales or would the pirates simply have never bought a DS in the first place?

@ John - Of course people make judgements about what laws they'll follow and which ones they'll break. This doesn't make them morons - if people didn't circumvent and break laws then laws would never change. Remember at one time women voting was illegal - it was the law that was wrong, not the people.

I'm not entirely convinced that everyone condemning R4 cards and game piracy has not at once owned, obtained or handled pirated material at some point it another. Are we supposed to believe that, say john here for example, doesn't own at least one albums worth of ripped mp3's? U imagine there's quite a few retailers with ripped music and film in their PC's who only get their knickers in a twist over piracy when it effects their business. Of course, I imagine they'll be quick to tell us how saintly they are. Rubbish.

Nice image of an R4 cartridge you have on this page. Taken directly from the old R4 website. Remind me again how copyright law works? Perhaps you could show us the license you negotiated to use the image?

We have two R4 devices which we use to play games we legally have bought and nothing else.

The games themselves are far too easy to lose, and it is very inconvenient to take a bunch of cartridges everywhere.

Others too must use the R4 for this reason?

I always understood it was reasonable to keep a backup for personal use? I buy CD's, keep them at home and take the MP3s of the tracks around with me.

Sigh.

Tim

“Nintendo promotes and fosters game development and creativity, and strongly supports the game developers who legitimately create new and innovative applications,”

In other words Nintendo promotes large teams of people that will pay and wait for authorisation to buy development kits while those without money/a studio/a publisher can not legitimately make their own games and applications because they intentionally block alternative affordable solutions.

"I always understood it was reasonable to keep a backup for personal use? "

If I understand correctly it is lawful to make a backup for personal use. but unlawful to circumvent copy protection.

Ridiculous isn't it?

get real people only buy this device for one reason - to pirate games

nintendo DS sales have dropped significantly since R4.

only problem is they should have been stopped a long time ago damage is now done.

every other day we get asked if we sell R4 from childrens parents saying there friend has loads of games for free. (this includes versions of boxed products not just homebrew)

"i say to customers funny isnt it how you decide what laws are important enough to follow,"

Mmm. I once interviewed the Director General of ELSPA about something or other for a trade mag. He did the interview over the phone, while driving down the road in his car, an illegal and dangerous activity. He still felt able to lecture people about piracy.

Homebrew is not actually as small as people seem to think. 90% of the apps people download and use on their iPhone's are homebrew, and just sold over Apples own distribution system. That's why there are so many of them out there. And while there aren't as many on the DS as the iPhone, there are still quite a lot more than peopel think.

My uncle is a music technician and lecturer and wrote and distributed his own music software for the DS to his students for use on the course, as a ds is a lot simpler to lug about than a laptop.

"The ruling should have covered any similar device but I guess some crusty non techy judge wont really understand"

It does. About a dozen or so carts were named in the case..all were banned.

According to the ruling..

...it is now illegal to manufacture, import, distribute or sell in the UK any device that is "primarily designed, produced, adapted or performed for the purpose of enabling or facilitating the circumvention of the ETM employed by Nintendo to protect its copyright".

That should cover future Nintendo platforms as well from the sounds of it.

The R4 has acted in a huge way to stop the usual depreciation of a games console! People would still buy the DS/DSi over a psp and all of the changed sony have made to it because of being able to use homebrew apps and save music and pics on the DS. Usually a games console would have a very low RRP after it has been out this long but it still has an RRP of about £70. Compare this to the ps2 and xbox which was only about a year earlier now retail at about 30-40 pound. Bottom line is...THE DS WILL HAVE A HUGE DROP IN POPULARITY HENCE DROP IN PROFITS! For what...? a few people downloaded pirated games...

And yet again the British Police State labels something "BANNED". In several years, I'm quite certain that marmalade will be banned for some ridiculous reason.
This will probably be my last post, as I am sure the people who are now monitoring my browsing activity (see digital economy bill) have seen me reading this, an anti-Government article and will lock me up.

The console cost too much, and the games cost too much.

I bought my sons a iPod touch each and for the price of one DS game they've got a dozen or more better games from iTunes.

There's a couple of thousand DS titles and less than handful worth playing.

If Nintendo didn't notice, the only reason people kept buying their console and not anyone elses, was BECAUSE of the various supercarts.

If Nintendo want their next console to succeed, then they must have an open-SDK and an online games store with a low price point. I know this won't make retailers happy, but you'll always have Pokemon and Mario.

funny maybe, the police should monitor how to use tasers as well as how to treat old men in range rover sports....young power minded tossers that don't get laid at home and take it out on the general public...lets just look back and see how many times the police have broken the law

What if you own one already - is that illegal - do we have to hand them in or what?

Why does the Uk Government have to be a bunch of Kill Joys? Its not like we cant find a way of getting them anyway...