“encouraging their stores to secure 10 pre-orders for the device every day,” – That’s not 10 people a day buying it, that's a store telling its staff to shove Kinect down everyones throats.It's not a sign of Kinect being popular that is a sign of a desperate marketing campaign.

Agreed.

Retailers want/need Kinect to be a success (as they get better margins on hardware than SW) so they are starting to talk it up claiming it is going to be a success in the hope of convincing consumers.

Look carefully at the quotes above- see any facts? Nope- just vague PR statements such as "large number of deposits", "customers are clearly excited"

Also as Apple know better than anyone almost any new technology has a boom pre-order phase as early adopters buy devices at any price. The real measure of success or failure will not be the number of pre-orders for launch but the number of Christmas sales.

(and the number of second hand units available)

Then we'll see if the price is right or not.

have to agree, once we put the price tag on all the pos, we had a small backlash and actually had people cancel their pre order and move it to a game instead.i do think it will sell just not the way ms want it to

These are the same retailers that said Kinect at over £100 is too much.

I guess they like being proved wrong.

To be honest I think the price is alright. I mean, it's expensive. But Xbox 360 owners spend lots of money on games - so £130 isn't going to be that much of a stretch.

And £250 for a console, Kinect and game is reasonable. Not quite as cheap as Wii, but it's not far off. Within the same bracket certainly, and an ideal package for a Christmas family gift.

So yes. The price is high. But not high enough to put consumers off, and it's great that pre-orders are so high.

@ meh

SRP Hardware margin 8%, Software margin should be around 25%.

I suppose with Supermarkets discounting software by 20% the margin is better but either way not great margins.

I don't know why anyone wants kinect they should try it out a macy's before committing as I had several problems with it in store, it was laggy and kept on glitching because I was wearing a dress, and the menu's was so hard because the pointer controls was simply broken, more time setting it up than playing it I am not impressed

How much was the Wii when it came out? Do you remember what you thought of the Wii.

A kids console with rubbish graphisc and a gimic controller which works on motion but isnt really any good or accurate.

Guess what is was a runnaway sucess and i got a feeling it will be the same with this. You just nee the right ideas and games. E.g fitness/yoga trainning would work perfectly and all the self concious people who wont go to a class can do the proper thing at home. Any idea thats gone onto a motion controller can be transferred to Kinect.

Its worth what people are willing to pay for it and i my opinion they only really need a couple of good games at launch and people will start going mad over it.

Im a hardcore gamer and this thing interests me but i wont be buying it untill i have played it and seen whats available.

I'll say the same thing i have been about 3D, get with the times, its gona happend and its gona be big even if u dont like it or think its overpriced. Better to start high and bring the price down instead of starting low and rising the prices.

i would check out the maceys demo video on youtube before you part with hard earned cash, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrRl0CWFv3M
check out about 4.25mins in, not a good look

Seems the casuals are speaking with their wallets. It;s aimed at these kinds so good news, cry moar to the fags pissed off and making bullshit excuses.

With Kinect there is not the hidden costs of having to buy any additional controllers or recharging unit Kinect also comes with a game, it's 2 player fully ready out of the box.
Kinect has far more potential the the rivals Wi and Move and as we have seen with the Wii, it all gets a bit boring waving those 2 controllers around.

I would also check out this video at 0.22 of PS3 Move being tested by Eurogamer for lag, just trying to move a simple couple of Polygons it struggles badly, if it has this trouble with something this simple how will it handle a full game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxcT1z8Ob1U

@ damn
Why have you bothered putting a link up to where the Kinect is obviously not setup right in a demo booth..

A stupid fanboy "look at what i found" "actually my videos better, your wrong" b.s fight, look we know the ps eye is a bit laggy and kenetic only seems to work if ur white and have a six by six cube for a room, lets just wait and see what its like WHEN THEIR ACTUALLY FINISHED AND RELEASED!

Oh and £130 for a "2 player" kenetic or £34.99 for a move controller that work with your existing ps eye and duelshock 3 i think its quite clear which is the cheaper option, especially for parents who stupidly bought either eye pet or eye of judgement for their little ones.

Smells more like desperate retail hoping their optimism will manifest. Who is Grainger Games? Preorders on Amazon have fallen off a cliff after the initial interest in week one of preorders, it is almost out of the top 50 now.

I can understand why retailers need this to succeed, they don't have any new home console hardware coming their way, they normally would at this point. I know in particular that Kinect is being pushed very hard by Game, but if two friends of mine who work there are correct, the response has been pretty unenthusiastic so far. Anecdotal, but hey. I just think we should bear in mind that retail has a serious vested interest in there being good sentiment around this hardware, and we should treat vague whisperings from small retailers cautiously.

im a fanboy ha ha ha, you just did exactly the same as me !! lol
in my personal view i find it slightly embarassing that ms & sony are coming to motion gaming when nintendo beat the living daylights out of sony & ms with a sub par graphics kiddie machine.
i dont like move or kinect good sir, from a retail point of view it would be good for both or either to be a success but i also go off amazon pre orders and other major sites and im sorry to say article is sheer PR bs.i feel both move and kinect will be a flash in the pan and quicky become shovell ware

I'm sceptical those early adopter preorders are a meaningful way to gauge the success with the casual consumer adoption. Seems way too soon for retailers to be breaking out the champers and patting themselves on the back.

Why are the majority of comments on here so negative ? Every article on MCV seems to be met by scepticism/negativity or even hate (and yes we should always have some level of scepticism over anything we read and challenge it if deemed necessary - just not for the sake of it)

If Kinect is a success, we should be happy for the industry. Same for Move. Why does everything have to be "bah humbug!" ?

Lets all hope, for the overall health of the video games industry, that these both do well - hopefully the preorders are a good sign.

Yes, as someone points out, it is not the initial first day sales volume that is important, but the longer term sales. However the initial sales are still important as it is the word of mouth etc generated by these sales that ensure it continues to sell - so the larger the volume of early adopters, if the product is good, then the larger the word of mouth promotion etc.

Personally, motion control is not for me, but I do hope Kinect & Move are successful none the less.

i totally see what your saying, its just i find these new add ons, totally built on previous tech from nintendo who are really not selling now, which says to me the same thing will happen to move and kinect.
i just think its all based from eye toy tech and not at all forward thinking or innovative which is what this industry is ment to be.
not many serious gamers will play standing up, or with motion for any length of time, you will just see party games and its very clear ms & sony are aiming for the casual market, this is why im so negative as the casual customers are just that, they dont spend like the hardcore, so you may sell kinect or move, but dont expect to sell hundreds of units of software.

Believe me...I am not oblivious to the potential success/failure of these devices. I just get frustrated towards to the general level of negativity on here. I summed my thoughts towards the success of Kinnect in an earlier post as follows:

"I believe there is still one fairly significant technical issue to overcome with kinnect - and that is that it does not recognise you when sitting down. One they definitely need to rectify!

As for preorders - i dont think this will accurately reflect the actual final demand for the Kinnect as if it is going to tap into the Wii casual market (although they do claim it is also for the "hardcore") much of this demand will come when people see friends, news coverage, shop promotions etc etc...if it does turn out to be truly revolutionary I am sure it may do ok....but I also think that motion control is not the be all future of gaming...

The Wii's success came in being the first to do the motion control well - but it also did it simply, and at an affordable price. Whereas in the past consoles like the Gamecube hurt due to their "kiddy toy" image, the Wii benefited instead.

A large portion of people who bought the Wii, only bought it for one game (ie Wii Sports) and if you look at the attachment rate of games on the Wii (esp 3rd party) you will see this is not a ravenous market.

How many of these "casual gamers" (who are unlikely to own a PS3 or a 360) are now going to fork out for a new more expensive console, as well as the motion control. And how many of the gamers who already do have these consoles are going to purchase the new motion controlling equipment - the majority of gamers I talk to with these consoles are not that interested....at least not yet.

Most predicted the Wii would fail, and were wrong, so writeoff Kinnect/Move at your risk, but I do believe these are coming to a different market, and a little too late, and are not as accessible. Obviously some killer mass market games etc could change this, but i dont believe a better more complex version of Wii Tennis (ie one that is much more accurate, but less forgiving and actually requires you to be good at tennis) is going to have the same successs."

"If Kinect is a success, we should be happy for the industry. Same for Move. Why does everything have to be "bah humbug!" ?"

It'd be good in the short term for the industry, but would it be good for us? Consumers, I mean.

I don't think it would be good for core 360 fans. Kinect has already eaten into Microsoft's development focus.

I'm not sure it would even be good for anyone or the industry as a whole if the product is as broken as many reports suggest. If the product ended up getting into a lot of homes but then subsequently leaving a bad taste it would damage the credibility of the industry in the eyes of the wider market. This isn't a matter of personal taste and not liking casual games, it's a matter of whether the product actually works as advertised and works well. According to most recent reports it doesn't actually function well. The controls are reportedly janky and unreliable. Even IGN 360 this morning has an article out, after a UK preview event, where they call Kinect 'the lame donkey' of the motion control race. And IGN sites are meant to act as advocates for their respective systems! It's hard to muster up good cheer for a product if it is being knowingly put out in bad state, in the hope that the casuals won't be clever enough to notice its shortcomings.

I was actually aiming at the post of ashad with his "your wrong here is my ms bs to prove it"

Your quite right this article is a bit optimistic, and i personally cant see how a device aimed at casual or young gamers can be successful on a console aimed at the 23-35 year old market

x360girlgamer

"more time setting it up than playing it I am not impressed"

You said it happens to every guy! That I shouldn't worry about it!

zing!

@Ashad

You've posted a link from all the way back in march where it was even said the software being used wasn't working well. Try posting links from E3 when everyone said the device is working very well. Good try though.

"Microsoft vindicated as innovative controller finds its feet"

Well... let's not go sucking Microsoft off just yet. Wait six months after a launch and then have a look at its numbers?

In these pre-order crazy times, pretty much anything with any sort of real hype and marketing push can do well in the first month.

yeah i have to say there was so much hype around splinter cell then we i got it i was kind of let down with the finished product, i think software attachement and overall kinect sales need to be looked at in march, its almost crazy to be getting all excited about invisible sales of a product that isnt yet released

I'm starting to get slightly concerned about some of MCV's reporting of late.

Statements from MCV reporters in regards to Kinect such as "Microsoft Vindicated" or "Microsoft’s E3 press conference has proven all doubters wrong"..

.....seem more like marketing (or even fanboyism) as opposed to serious,measured industry reporting.

I expect that sort of marketing speak from Microsoft, devs and retailers to hype the product....not from MCV.

Ben at MCV posted an article a few weeks back saying Microsoft lost at E3 and the Kinect failed to shine. (http://www.mcvuk.com/features/708/OPINION-E3-2010-analysis)

So I don't think MCV is being biased or 'fan boyism'

Surely this article is 'Microsoft vindicated' because everyone, including MCV, said it was too expensive. But consumers have pre-ordered it anyway.

Bart has the measure of it - we're not biased for or against anyone. But we had criticised the device and the price before (I've even repeated some of that in the comment in this week's issue...) - and our tone in this story reflects the shift in attitude amongst the retail community towards Kinect. As someone points out, it was these same people who only three or four weeks ago said they wouldn't see any sales over £100. Microsoft said otherwise, stuck to its guns, and the first wave of interest proves them right.

Also, the person who called for 'facts' to support the quotes - it's easier said than done getting retailers to give you exact, on the record pre-order figures...

According to the bits in this weeks MCV, Kinect pre-orders aren't even in the top ten for Shopto or amazon, whereas MOVE appears several times in the Shopto top ten. We are about evenly matched in store, where normally we would expect to be slightly ahead for the 360 (Our gamer base seems to be slightly 360 biased)

I actually just saw Michael French's editorial in MCV this week - apparently all us skeptics will be lining up to buy it once the price comes down! Is MCV aware of why people are skeptical of Kinect? It's not so much the price as that it seems fundamentally janky. Read videogamer.com or IGN's latest impressions from MS events - the controls just seem broken. Kinect seems to be struggling to competently support even the very narrow scope of games it aims for. The price is just insult upon injury, so to speak.

Do you really think it's seriously "broken", They are doing a UK Tour with it, and it is at Covent Garden from today for countless weeks. If it was "Broken" do you really think they would want people to use it..?

Come on. Common sense here.

The 'sceptics' mean those reluctant to buy it because of the price. I think the people reluctant to buy it because of the technology not matching their expectations, or those unsure of the software line up (that's me), are different sets of people.

Don McCabe (Chips) stated that this RRP was too high, what a fool. I suppose he was worried they as had no money left because Nik had spent it on Star Wars crap and broken DS peripherals.

look, everyone has an opinion, and anyone calling anyone a fanboy and then stating there opinion in rival is just being a fanboy, all i can say is stop it.

look Kinect is a neat peice of kit, or at least has the potential to be, but looking at the videos and the macys demo etc etc its just not ready and needs so bugs fixing. if it wasnt set up right then microsoft need to hire better staff and not let people tape the event.

Playstation move is coming out first, and it works, i have only seen 1 "LAG" video and even then the site it was shown on has often been questioned about there evidance. thats not to say when its released move wont have its problems mind, but i think there is a reason sony are going in september, while microsoft are waiting untill november.

now for the RRP. in my personal opinion as an individule i think kinect is too expensive, thats just my opinion. however for a family who would dig this kind of thing, its about the right price.

as for peoples MOVE cost combos that they create. every video i have seen says to me that the setup for multiplayer (all multiplayer) is 2 move controlers 1 nav, every game i have seen needing to use 2 controllers for the game has been turn based, my turn, your turn. split screen games have been 1 control each, and ive only seen the nav used in hardcore games or adventure games.

now if you are buy the full setup then move costs £110 but you need to get that game to play, demos can only get you so far.

on the flip of the coin, move is positiond for those who already have the camera, or dont require the nav.

which one will do better. i think move works better (opinion) but kinect will sell better because retailers (like GAME) want that big margin in the till, and get paid allot by microsoft to promote the product.

ALL OPINION, your entitled to it.

Putting up links to any kind of demo or lag on either controller is a complete waste of time until the product has been fully released and the drivers are finalised.
They will carry on being devleoped now and constantly after release and will be an Auto updates

When you buy a newly released Pro soundcard you may have something like 30ms lag of lag between the keyboard and the computer but usually within a few weeks new drivers are launched bring it down to 20ms then 10ms etc, I don't see any reason why this will not happen on the controllers to..

If Kinect sells, retail better brace them selves for a returns meltdown. As gamers return it, cos it don't perform as advertised.

Hi John (if you are still following this thread) - I think you miss my point. It goes without saying that the release of a product that is broken is not good for the industry (although saying that, technological related industries are far more tolerant of products aiming high and not quite meeting the expectations - that is the nature of the industry).

However, my original point is that there is alot of negativity towards Kinect/Move by people who really do not know how well these products do or do not perform. They want them to fail for no specific reason, whether it be fanboyism, or they just believe they are too "hardcore " - I dont know. You look at any videogame industry forum, and the majority of posts will be negative, written behind people with false names.

It is a good sign that there are a large number of preorders, but this alone will not determine the success of the product. The key to this is the subsequent word of mouth, press coverage, quality of software etc etc - word of mouth will not spread in a positive way if the product is not to a good standard as you claim.
I consider myself a "hardcore" gamer (whatever that means) and also am not overly excited by motion control - but I also do hope these products succeed - it has to be good for the industry if they do. Sure, there will be an influx of shovelware etc, but it will also be a welcome injection for retailers, developers and publishers. There will still be AAA "hardcore" games, and a profitable Kinect/Move market will help fund the AAA games, even if they are not Kinect specific.

If MS knowingly release a flawed/broken product then they deserve what comes to them - but I do hope this is not the case, and the industry continues to expand as a result.